Thread: Deer Population Growth

Originally Posted by HarryMax

Some interesting ideas there and having a clear objective is obviously very important (to be clear I'm not advocating for entirely removing deer but I am interested in the populations being managed more effectively)

In terms of this sort of thing being 'applied and studied' - isn't all this data being gathered in the US with their management of animal numbers which goes back into available tag numbers etc ?

Cheers

The US has a lot of scientific literature which can be applied and learned from, however there are also fundamental ecosystem differences and diametrically opposite objectives in wild animal management which mean blanket comparisons are rarely valid

Originally Posted by woods223

Chopper shooting, the pilot’s there to verify kills.

I am led to believe the shooters wear GoPro headsets or similar as a means of counting / verifying. It's an effective method.

Originally Posted by gimp

The US has a lot of scientific literature which can be applied and learned from, however there are also fundamental ecosystem differences and diametrically opposite objectives in wild animal management which mean blanket comparisons are rarely valid

https://www.yellowstonepark.com/thin...nges-ecosystem

Interesting anecdote. I reported to a farmer after last evening "I saw 6 in x pdk but left them because they were all mature hinds and does". [I was thinking about the fawns].
His reply "don't worry about the hinds and doe's, its pest control".
So some farmers are over them. 10 or so years ago this farm had a "don't shoot the fallow" policy.

Originally Posted by gimp

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Which may or may not be enough to achieve a change in outcomes, depending on your defined objective. It would be interesting to see it applied and studied.

In discussion with people better informed than I it seems there may be some understanding of this already? An oft made observation from DoC people I've spoken with is along the lines of " ... rec hunting just can't reduce the numbers to the level required to allow habitat recovery...". That position is apparently informed by 'analysis' of monitoring data that provides estimates of animal density and vege condition, which in places shows that even at very low numbers introduced browsers are a problem.

Like you said .... complicated.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

I am led to believe the shooters wear GoPro headsets or similar as a means of counting / verifying. It's an effective method.

Some may, others don’t. Friggen helmet can be bad enough for upsetting sight acquisition.

Originally Posted by Maxx

In discussion with people better informed than I it seems there may be some understanding of this already? An oft made observation from DoC people I've spoken with is along the lines of " ... rec hunting just can't reduce the numbers to the level required to allow habitat recovery...". That position is apparently informed by 'analysis' of monitoring data that provides estimates of animal density and vege condition, which in places shows that even at very low numbers introduced browsers are a problem.

Like you said .... complicated.

yes but bloody DOC believe their own spin blindly

[a "don't shoot the fallow" policy.]. Give them time they all start bleating on about too many animals but some still won’t let hunters have a go.

Problem we have in Otago is landlocked DOC blocks teeming with deer ,and annoying farmers who make access hard .But now being middle aged and wiser I go where I want

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Originally Posted by Maxx

In discussion with people better informed than I it seems there may be some understanding of this already? An oft made observation from DoC people I've spoken with is along the lines of " ... rec hunting just can't reduce the numbers to the level required to allow habitat recovery...". That position is apparently informed by 'analysis' of monitoring data that provides estimates of animal density and vege condition, which in places shows that even at very low numbers introduced browsers are a problem.

Like you said .... complicated.

....what about the biomass browsers removed...say...300 years or so ago?

DoC and Twig and Tweet's version of "original" and "habitat recovery" is always tainted by their inbuilt bias.

Just keep shooting as many as we can. If good buggers on here want to share intel that is also good.

Hi, New member here just signed up having read this thread while looking for some clues as to worthwhile deer hunting spots, and thought I might add to some of the robust discussion going on here....

It's certainly painful hearing these stories about secret spots with deer spilling out of the bush while some of us are resigned to spending 8 hours driving and 8 hours tangled in supplejack to find nothing but weeks old sign or not even that. Worse yet that DOC and landowners are resorting to paid culling operations!

That said, I can also relate to those privileged with those secret spots not wanting some muppet turning up and ruining a good relationship with a landowner. I'm much the same with the spots I go rabbit/possum hunting, and on my own property it's already hard enough to maintain good relations with certain neighbours without adding random armed visitors into the mix.

I've also seen a trend these days that everyone is terrified of the H&S act (unsurprising since an entire industry has sprung up around fearmongering and misinformation around this), but it also seems to be the case in my area that if a farmer isn't shooting, then he doesn't want any shooting on his property at all, and if he IS shooting, he doesn't want anyone else shooting there either!

The difficulty here is that for some of us, what we are hearing from the lucky few is not matching up at all with what we are seeing out there on open permit doc land.

difficulty here is that for some of us, what we are hearing from the lucky few is not matching up at all with what we are seeing out there on open permit doc land

well yes and no Kaimais maybe but my old DOC hunting mate and his friend in a week last roar in Ruahines said they saw 50 plus deer for the week - now I should point out that they are both ex Cullers damn top hunters with good indicating dogs - so in some areas yes the deer are there all right - I would put money on the fact in many areas in Te Urewera numbers will be well up - but then National park and Pureora maybe a lot lower and damn hard to hunt for a new hunter

Originally Posted by motorb

Hi, New member here just signed up having read this thread while looking for some clues as to worthwhile deer hunting spots, and thought I might add to some of the robust discussion going on here....

It's certainly painful hearing these stories about secret spots with deer spilling out of the bush while some of us are resigned to spending 8 hours driving and 8 hours tangled in supplejack to find nothing but weeks old sign or not even that. Worse yet that DOC and landowners are resorting to paid culling operations!

That said, I can also relate to those privileged with those secret spots not wanting some muppet turning up and ruining a good relationship with a landowner. I'm much the same with the spots I go rabbit/possum hunting, and on my own property it's already hard enough to maintain good relations with certain neighbours without adding random armed visitors into the mix.

I've also seen a trend these days that everyone is terrified of the H&S act (unsurprising since an entire industry has sprung up around fearmongering and misinformation around this), but it also seems to be the case in my area that if a farmer isn't shooting, then he doesn't want any shooting on his property at all, and if he IS shooting, he doesn't want anyone else shooting there either!

The difficulty here is that for some of us, what we are hearing from the lucky few is not matching up at all with what we are seeing out there on open permit doc land.

Drive south for 4 and a half hours to the top of the Desert road. Park your car in the car park and walk East along the poled route into the Kaimanawa State Forest Park for 2 hours. Not a single piece of supplejack will encumber you. With the wind in your favour, within a few hours of first and last light and a pair of binos by your side if you haven't got onto a couple of deer by then you are doing something terribly wrong. Get back to us and we will review your progress and suggest amendments to your technique!

Added bonus: if you go there between 11 Feb and 19 March (less Fri and Sat nights) you will find the place quite tranquil, as the road is closed 6pm through to 6am every day for resealing

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

well yes and no Kaimais maybe but my old DOC hunting mate and his friend in a week last roar in Ruahines said they saw 50 plus deer for the week

Originally Posted by XR500

Drive south for 4 and a half hours to the top of the Desert road.

haha yeah I guess part of my problem is living in Auckland!

Originally Posted by XR500

Park your car in the car park and walk East along the poled route into the Kaimanawa State Forest Park for 2 hours. Not a single piece of supplejack will encumber you. With the wind in your favour, within a few hours of first and last light and a pair of binos by your side if you haven't got onto a couple of deer by then you are doing something terribly wrong. Get back to us and we will review your progress and suggest amendments to your technique!

On a more serious note, is this the carpark near the Tukino skifeild access road? I've got a mate who would split the petrol bill if you reckon it's a worthwhile spot.

Next weekend I'm housesitting for a mate in Pyes Pa (Tauranga), so if there's any good suggestions near there I'm all ears! Otawa or Otanewainuku? Mamaku or Kaimais?