Thread: Deer repellant..Crock of crap

Originally Posted by LittleDave

My understanding is that there is a patent on the deer repellent formula, which means it cannot be added to the baits during production. These normal baits have to be shipped to a warehouse, spread out, then sprayed with the deer repellent. This adds a lot of money to the production of 'deer repellent' baits. I don't think the patent will be lifted any time soon either. This means that the repellent can wash off in wet conditions and doesn't last as long as it otherwise would. From what I can gather it does work. There seems to be a lot of stuff said on the issue of 1080, a lot of it seems to be people thinking with their emotions rather than logic, which makes arguing difficult and seems almost impossible to get a point across in most situations. Deer need controlling, it's well understood the damages they can do when they reach high numbers. I've definitely seen some areas that could do with a few less deer, not only for the bush but for the animals themselves being in such high numbers didn't seem to be getting the feed they need. Deer evolved in an ecosystem which contained predators which kept the population healthy, which is something that is largely missing from the one they occupy here. There is a paper by Dave Forsyth where he looks at impacts of deer and Moa on New Zealand ecosystems which would be worth a read for anyone that's interested. Doc don't use 1080 to control deer, the deaths are by-kill from operations targeting introduced predators.


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I agree with all but the last sentence.

Without doing any proper research, (shoot me down right now), I suggest that deer , or at least the majority of NZ deer, did indeed evolve in an ecosystem without any real predators other than man. The wolves and bears were long since wiped out in most of the European/uk habitats that our "wild" deer are decended from.

Originally Posted by Pengy

Without doing any proper research, (shoot me down right now), I suggest that deer , or at least the majority of NZ deer, did indeed evolve in an ecosystem without any real predators other than man. The wolves and bears were long since wiped out in most of the European/uk habitats that our "wild" deer are decended from.

In high population areas I have often (private property) found dead old hinds that didnt make the winter threw and died of starvation......I shot one that was obviously not doing well once...she was a massive bodyed hind but skinny as at the end of summer(should be fat) she had lost most of her front teeth and the molars were literally worn to the gum...there is a photo of the jaw I posted on here somewhere but I lost it in a computer malfuction.
Even her well aged backsteaks were inedible to my palate......the whole animal went into sausages and even those were pretty average at best.

I would hazard a guess thst deer aint 'evolved' to shit here, its only been close to 180 years since they arrived. They are however very adaptable.

Originally Posted by HNTMAD

My MOA cuts the hectare section I have in an hour and a half but when it's real thick it can take longer. That changes based on the season.

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My Tikka can shoot sub MOA


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Originally Posted by Pengy

Without doing any proper research, (shoot me down right now), I suggest that deer , or at least the majority of NZ deer, did indeed evolve in an ecosystem without any real predators other than man. The wolves and bears were long since wiped out in most of the European/uk habitats that our "wild" deer are decended from.

evolution takes place over hundreds of thousands of years minimum. The predators that were wiped out (wolves and bears) were only lost in the last few hundred years.Before that they co existed for hundreds of thousands if not millions of years That said we have to include ourselves as major predators of deer as we have been hunting them ever since we first picked up a spear.

Originally Posted by Chur Bay

evolution takes place over hundreds of thousands of years minimum.

Usually, but not always:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution

https://youtu.be/plVk4NVIUh8

Originally Posted by Chur Bay

evolution takes place over hundreds of thousands of years minimum. The predators that were wiped out (wolves and bears) were only lost in the last few hundred years.Before that they co existed for hundreds of thousands if not millions of years That said we have to include ourselves as major predators of deer as we have been hunting them ever since we first picked up a spear.

Nice try: if that were the case, we wouldn't have a "theory of evolution" - which had to come from relatively short (in evolution terms) observations.
Refer: Evolution World Tour: Galápagos Islands, Ecuador | Evotourism | Smithsonian
David Attenborough has some very interesting documentaries on this - great for an rainy afternoon when you would rather be hunting.
The Galapagos are very similar to New Zealand in their remoteness: an ideal evolutionary pond.

Did'nt do the Dodo much good did it! Anyway, who wants to live their life in Galapagos? (apart from hermits)

Gone. Moa--Gone, mostly burnt and eaten.

Haast Eagle etc etc -gone.

Place would be bloody boring without deer ,tahr, chamois, pigs trout, pheasnats, quail, Canada geese and mallard ducks

Originally Posted by Woody

Did'nt do the Dodo much good did it! Anyway, who wants to live their life in Galapagos? (apart from hermits)

Gone. Moa--Gone, mostly burnt and eaten.

Haast Eagle etc etc -gone.

Place would be bloody boring without deer ,tahr, chamois, pigs trout, pheasnats, quail, Canada geese and mallard ducks

Madagascar bro - let's not argue semantics: I know what you mean. Forest and Bird don't. They would argue that anything introduced needs to go. Lets hope common sense prevails for both the budget and game hunting.

Originally Posted by stretch

Usually, but not always:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution

https://youtu.be/plVk4NVIUh8

Black pepered moths and white pepered moths are still peppered moths. Natural selection is occuring there no doubt, but evolution into separate species takes far longer. Think Kea-Kaka, Takahe-Pukeko

Originally Posted by Nickoli

Nice try: if that were the case, we wouldn't have a "theory of evolution" - which had to come from relatively short (in evolution terms) observations.
Refer: Evolution World Tour: Galápagos Islands, Ecuador | Evotourism | Smithsonian
David Attenborough has some very interesting documentaries on this - great for an rainy afternoon when you would rather be hunting.
The Galapagos are very similar to New Zealand in their remoteness: an ideal evolutionary pond.

Finches and Tortoises have been observed to be different on different Islands/niches. We havent observed that change, only noted and theorised their differences and why they may have occured .
Talking about evolution is a bit like talking about religon and 1080. You can have opposing veiws and each side know they are right.

Well, the Maori's liked hunting and eating Moa's.
Haast Eagle then had no tucker. He died out. Most lime / calcium fertilizer for the early settlers came from the vast piles of moa bones near Waitaki river mouth.

I like hunting and eating introduced game animals, fish and birds. Therefore I don't like chemicals that hurt these.

I don't want to end up subsisting on processed krill and insects either, for that matter. Leave that sort of tucker to the PC'ers and the Twig and Tweet brigade I reckon.

DoC and councils would do better to be working at enhancing game animal habitats than some of their other wasteful activities. eg, leaving blown down Rimu forests / trees to rot instead of logging salvaging them. And- Perhaps the dead mass stranded pilot whales could have been salvaged and rendered for pet food and oil instead of being left to rot ffs!

Originally Posted by Woody

Well, the Maori's liked hunting and eating Moa's.
Haast Eagle then had no tucker. He died out. Most lime / calcium fertilizer for the early settlers came from the vast piles of moa bones near Waitaki river mouth.

I like hunting and eating introduced game animals, fish and birds. Therefore I don't like chemicals that hurt these.

I don't want to end up subsisting on processed krill and insects either, for that matter. Leave that sort of tucker to the PC'ers and the Twig and Tweet brigade I reckon.

DoC and councils would do better to be working at enhancing game animal habitats than some of their other wasteful activities. eg, leaving blown down Rimu forests / trees to rot instead of logging salvaging them. And- Perhaps the dead mass stranded pilot whales could have been salvaged and rendered for pet food and oil instead of being left to rot ffs!

Oh and Moriori

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Probably. we know what happened to them too eh A sort of example of how humans evolve ---