Thread: Discussion on NZ Hunting moving forward - NZGuns

Q: Do you prefer wild animal sustainable management by New Zealanders accessing recreational hunting; -- or wild animals randomly slaughtered as ferals, by poisons contractors courtesy of extreme green agencies or waro et al ?

Originally Posted by Stocky

I don't really agree. By doing this you loose the remoteness and appeal of wilderness (official or not) . Helicopter access is bad enough as there's not much truly remote country. I personally beleive somethings are more important than everyone being able to access places. Some things aren't fair and never will be. It to me feels like giving participation medals in a triathlon and no places. Why work harder.

Look at all the easily accessed tourism and even hunting spots that are ruined by easy access. Huts that get vandalised and have huge amounts of litter and beer bottles are almost always those with 4wd access. We have some great access with more public free huts than almost anywhere do we really need to be able to drive to every deer chammy and tahr in the country.

Fair comments and sentiments but are they borne out by actual observation ? 'Easy access' as in driving access hasn't ruined any hunting spots I know of , Helecopter hunting and 1080 have though. The Harper Avoca is not ruined or filled with rubbish despite open access, it is not easy hunting either but that is because the poorness of the country does not support numbers. The best spot in the whole of the Maruia valley Thistle creek is ruined and totally devoid of deer, pigs and birds from 1080. From my observation I have not seen any more rubbish at drivable huts than at remote walk in ones. I expect that this is because it is easier to take your rubbish with you when you have a vehicle on site. As well parties that arrive by vehicle are more likely to gather up rubbish left by previous dirty bastards.
There has to be a place for everyone to enjoy the outdoors. Why should people with young kids not have the opportunity to drive up a valley camp out and take the kids for a hunt ?
If areas a well used and animal numbers controlled by hunting then recreational hunting has a worthwhile future.

Originally Posted by Cyclops

@phil Shooters can choose to be members of whichever clubs they wish and support those clubs and aspects of shooting.

My point, which I reiterate, is that shooters shouldn't be forced to support the preferred shooting/sport of others.
A hunter can be a target shooter, a clay bird shooter, a fisherman. Good on them if they are.
But none of those disciplines should be forced to fund the others.

Get with the program , a gun is a gun and if we all want to use them we need to ban together , if you shoot paper you should support the hunter and vise verser or we will be up shits creek

Originally Posted by Lucky

Get with the program , a gun is a gun and if we all want to use them we need to ban together , if you shoot paper you should support the hunter and vise verser or we will be up shits creek

I do support hunters and other sport shooters, but I draw the line at financial support.
I did contribute to COLFO to support all shooters as that was my choice.

The article said there should be a levy on components and ammunition to support hunters and hunting.
Not all of the levied items are used in hunting,.
No-one has yet sufficiently justified a levy on all shooters to support only some shooters.

As a car driver I'm not levied to support motor racing and nor should I be.

Let hunters fund hunting, target shooters fund target shooting.

I'll work together to lobby our politicians.

I’ve followed this with some interest. The article was one guys view.
Having been to 60+ countries and looked in depth at hunting across the world and how it’s managed. I’ve seen pretty much all.

Here in the UK we are getting it in the neck from all sides! It’s nasty! Gamekeepers beaten up there family’s threatened. I’ve been spat at shouted at as well as been threatened. I’m only part time. The “shooting community” is under attack!

Now you might well say “yeah but that’s over there and none of our business”! But your wrong. Because it’s come home to NZ. You just need to look at what’s happened right across the board since 2019. Even before then we started getting it in the neck. There not going to stop either, with the likes of Phill Elpha (or how ever you spell that twats name) etc. There is a whole list of em lining up to have a big old kick at us.

It’s not all bad news but we sure are behind the eight ball!
When I started shooting I was very much an individual. Did not like clubs. To many old guys doing nothing.
But we do need very much to banned together!
I never wanted a “Gun lobby” in NZ. But we have one. It’s not a bad thing either. We need it to protect our lifestyle choices.
We do need COLFO. We need people to lobby parliament.
I think it would be a good thing if every firearm owner had to join a club! Part of your sub would go towards COLFO and the GAC.
Now I know we all like to be independent.
But we need to face the fact that these guys are not going away. So we do need very much to change.

Yes user pays, if we had a game animal licensing system we would have more control on how our animals are managed!
Once that is in place we can then look at other issues like access etc.
But first we really do need this in place to stop the rot!

If you are doing something for the environment like those guys trapping, post it on FB in your local paper.
We really need to be proactive with this. We are dying by death of a thousand cuts. So let’s take a leaf out of the attackers books and start by getting in front of the camera and posting the good that is being done. Plant those seeds.
Good examples of that where “Take a Kid Fishing”. So....
Take a kid camping! (you can just carry your gun armed tramps are aloud, you don’t need to hunt it’s planting that seed though).
Take a kid target shooting! Good controlled environment safe and I’ve yet to come across a kid that was not at least a little interested, curious in guns.

When posting or talking to the press be wise about it think what you are posting. If we are to turn this around it’s no good if the first thing you say is F this and Shit that...all dressed up in camo. Think...what dose this look like to an outsider? To left wing press? Do I look like/sound like some far right wing red neck? That’s the image that we really need to stop!
Clean and here, to help managed the environment and show that firearms are in the hands of citizens that are responsible and safe.

All the rest is just noise.

So the three points are.
1 Together we stand!
2 Join a club where subs go to COLFO and the GAC
3 Get involved! Post good images and talk to the press with how we are helping.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Fair comments and sentiments but are they borne out by actual observation ? 'Easy access' as in driving access hasn't ruined any hunting spots I know of , Helecopter hunting and 1080 have though. The Harper Avoca is not ruined or filled with rubbish despite open access, it is not easy hunting either but that is because the poorness of the country does not support numbers. The best spot in the whole of the Maruia valley Thistle creek is ruined and totally devoid of deer, pigs and birds from 1080. From my observation I have not seen any more rubbish at drivable huts than at remote walk in ones. I expect that this is because it is easier to take your rubbish with you when you have a vehicle on site. As well parties that arrive by vehicle are more likely to gather up rubbish left by previous dirty bastards.
There has to be a place for everyone to enjoy the outdoors. Why should people with young kids not have the opportunity to drive up a valley camp out and take the kids for a hunt ?
If areas a well used and animal numbers controlled by hunting then recreational hunting has a worthwhile future.

Yes plenty of places I won't hunt because it's downright dangerous during certain times of the year due to numbers (due to easy access). Also I see it in Montana.

With driving access comes spotlighters (have had a spotlight shown on me twice and that was enough).
As for dirty places the worst are fly in camps, I know plenty of spots in the middle of nowhere with rubbish, beer bottles etc in them that certainly cam ein with choppers. Same with plenty of drive in spots look to the huts down otago that had a 4wd rip the fireplace out multiple times. Access for everyone means access for the shit pricks. Add a little hard work and you weed out 95% of them.

I didn't advocate for removing access but I don't think we need more. Family's can already take their young kids places there's bloody great access already.

I do struggle to see the relevance of 1080 to access to be fair but feel free to enlighten me.

Ruined doesn't mean no deer to me ruined means the experience is degraded significantly. The selective method I choose when I hunt means buying meat would be cheaper so that not the sole reason for things. Its about the experience the connection to things and access and people don't help. They don't always hinder either but mostly they do.

I guess in summary I think we have plenty of access already you can drive up plenty of rivers in the south with families to huts. There are heaps that are manageable walks for kids. Do we really need a track to the headwaters of every catchment?

Also I've just move back down south Garth I think we are due for a catchup some time.

Originally Posted by Cyclops

I do support hunters and other sport shooters, but I draw the line at financial support.
I did contribute to COLFO to support all shooters as that was my choice.

The article said there should be a levy on components and ammunition to support hunters and hunting.
Not all of the levied items are used in hunting,.
No-one has yet sufficiently justified a levy on all shooters to support only some shooters.

As a car driver I'm not levied to support motor racing and nor should I be.

Let hunters fund hunting, target shooters fund target shooting.

I'll work together to lobby our politicians.

I think you are perhaps looking at it the wrong way - I have no interest in raiding your wallet to fund my lifestyle. If there was a levy placed on all firearms / archery and that money could make a significant difference to conservation funding that would go a long way to protecting all shooting disciplines because the government would not want to have to find those funds elsewhere. Hunters might directly benefit from game animal control - however target shooters benefit because of reduced pressure to further restrict / remove firearms use. As mentioned it could also be used to help fund safe shooting / training ranges so people don't have to sight in on public land - more ranges benefit everyone and mean more access to safe shooting.

My intention was to start some debate / discussion - in some ways your reaction has illustrated my point that there is not enough cohession in the firearms community making us easy to sweep aside. Please dont take that as a dig - I would much rather see constructive discussion and ideas on how we can protect what we all do. As Phil put above it need to be "firearms owners club" not semi guys, pistol guys, hunters, target shooters, etc etc