Thread: Eugenie Sage

Originally Posted by Backcountry Bob

DOC staff members are civil servants and are obliged to implement the policies of the government of the day. It's the minister who makes the decisions

Nominally yes, but its common for ministers to make decisions based on the recommendation of the same 'expert' civil servants.

We were reminiscing the other day about all the good street races that NZ had for years and years, the along comes this all encompassing health and safety and so much fun and enjoyment disappeared from the country, slow death of adventure and danger and too much cotton wool. All put in place by dingbats. We are going to be a very bored society in the future. what this has to do with this thread? but you get the driff?

Originally Posted by Maca49

We were reminiscing the other day about all the good street races that NZ had for years and years, the along comes this all encompassing health and safety and so much fun and enjoyment disappeared from the country, slow death of adventure and danger and too much cotton wool. All put in place by dingbats. We are going to be a very bored society in the future. what this has to do with this thread? but you get the driff?

Paeroa is shutting down sadly. Less attendance. Higher costs so only Whanganui really left

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aye, a new minister in particular, will rely on advice (aka ammunition) from the faceless "civil servants". The minister "makes the decisions" ... I would read as "pulls the trigger". In this case, the rifle (or in this example field artillery) and ammo are supplied by the vested civil servants in the hierarchy plus the greenies "doctrine".

Originally Posted by Russian 22.

Paeroa is shutting down sadly. Less attendance. Higher costs so only Whanganui really left

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Didn’t know that

Originally Posted by Maca49

Didn’t know that

Now you do. It's a shame.

Bucket racing in Auckland is shutting down. Sorry for side tracking thread but buckets are such a fun and cheap way to race.

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greymouth street racing was very alive last year and i thoroughly enjoyed it .amazing one day of the year when those bikes barrel past the cop shop doing 180km+ and the cops clap-bloody refreshing .well worth the visit .likewise Westcoast car club street sprints in greymouth. man do those assorted cars do some crazy speeds around the circuit.
now Eugenies Sage -honoured life member of Twig&Tweet.certainly in her westcoast antics re banning mining in the conservation estate she was being very closely advised by a notorious westcoast greenie(ex WCDHB CEO&green party poli)mr Kevin Hague.however after covert visits to two mines she does a backflip????????????????
Again though it seems shes like a circus acrobat and done yet another backflip re the thar cull. wonder whats dampened the ardour this time.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-ti...ahr-cull-start

Himmmm

Some interesting comments on stuff

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oh shit, that Stuff link makes scary reading.
So Sage has gone quiet to try and duck the media/public spotlight, saying "she/DOC will consult" yeah,, right ?! ..... but meanwhile they're plowing ahead with the cull ??? FFS !!
There's 100,000's of HA of alpine country with out tahr where her precious daizies can grow.

Originally Posted by chainsaw

oh shit, that Stuff link makes scary reading.
So Sage has gone quiet to try and duck the media/public spotlight, saying "she/DOC will consult" yeah,, right ?! ..... but meanwhile they're plowing ahead with the cull ??? FFS !!
There's 100,000's of HA of alpine country with out tahr where her precious daizies can grow.

The dumb thing is that there isnt a shred of science done that even shows the effects that thar have on alpine flowers. The only studies done are those on tussock health and even those show only minimal deterioration of the health of tussock even with the supposed 'explosion' of thar numbers. Below are several of the recommendations in the latest report. Rather illuminating

Changes in condition, such as cover, of other common species on these plots (e.g. Aciphylla spp.) might be analysed to supplement this report, but if DOC wishes to monitor tahr impacts on rare or vulnerable species (such as Ranunculus) it would be best to design a system specifically aimed at them, e.g. monitor survival along transects
or at sites where they occur.
•
The current aerial methods to estimate tahr densities by counting tahr across the whole study catchments may have practical uses for managers wanting to confirm over abundance, but these estimates are not reliable enough to meet the specific prescriptions for intervention in the tahr plan let alone the purposes of this study. We recommend using estimates of ungulate activity derived from the pellet plots around the vegetation plots in future analyses, but also recommend that the census count method as described by Challies (1992) be used in the year the vegetation and pellet plots are remeasured to allow better linking of the ungulate activity to catchment level measures of tahr density,and thus to the tahr-plan intervention densities.

Its all there in writing, in the latest study presented by doc. That's why she has stuck so vehemently to the tahr control plan rhetoric as she knows the latest science is not comprehensive enough.

I have also in my reading of the 3 studies done in 1996, 2004, and 2014 noted that there in no correlation nor supporting evidence that the indicative numbers specified in the htcp represent the minimum number at which we can achieve recuperation of our alpine environments. In fact that given the negligible difference in tussock health recorded in the despite the increasing numbers I would hypothesize that the number of tahr capable of being sustainably supported by our alpine environments is much higher than that specified.

These are not plants that evolved devoid of grazing pressure.

Thanks @nick_D - how do we get these facts into the public media & focus ? Seems like the Nats are running with the "anti cull" theme (atm), so how do we harness that. You'd think they'd be all over data and facts like this - as a means to politically embarrass the other mob ?! We may as well use the "political process " to some end good

Originally Posted by chainsaw

Thanks @nick_D - how do we get these facts into the public media & focus ? Seems like the Nats are running with the "anti cull" theme (atm), so how do we harness that. You'd think they'd be all over data and facts like this - as a means to politically embarrass the other mob ?! We may as well use the "political process " to some end good

I don't really know man. I think Greg and Willy did a good job of talking about the lack or robust science. TBH I believe national is just being 'oppositionist'. They seem to be in a fair amount of internal turmoil and are jùst searching for a bandwagon to jump on. With that in mind it's not surprising the argument wasn't well though out.

That being said, the lack of consultation angle has merit too.its probably what the court case will be based on.

I think the best use for excerpts from the various studies is in educating the general public. Getting the average urbanite to understand this is a real issue, not just some nutbags selfishly trying to preserve easy hunting. Show that hunting and conservation aren't mutually exclusive in New Zealand.

We want to control tahr too, but we want it done in a robust and scientific manner.

The link below is for the 2014 study which is as far as I can find, the latest comprehensive(ish) study done on the impact of tahr for anyone who is interested. It shows we need a reduction of numbers in some areas but it's far from doom and gloom.

https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&so...zbllRfmcpzNk5o

Originally Posted by kotuku

greymouth street racing was very alive last year and i thoroughly enjoyed it .amazing one day of the year when those bikes barrel past the cop shop doing 180km+ and the cops clap-bloody refreshing .well worth the visit .likewise Westcoast car club street sprints in greymouth. man do those assorted cars do some crazy speeds around the circuit.

My boss races there each year. Loves it on his tickled up Norton. I been there to watch once a few years back now, great day above ground it was.