Thread: Fallow Bucks getting hard?

Originally Posted by nor-west

230lb, looks good farm land, why are so many farmers selling off for tree farming? Reading the news, foresty residue/ slashback is making a right mess of river mouth's, what's happened to farming in NZ.

You live in a house worth a million dollars...and some Carbon clown comes along and offers you 2.5 million cash for it.

That, and the average age of Kiwi farmers is 59, and they have mostly had a gutsfull of being villified, run into the ground 'cause they cant find any half decent help to hire, and the Govt thinks up a new hoop for you to have to jump through every second week.

Pretty much agree. Except for the Carbon clown bit.

From what I have seen these people had the foresight to see an opportunity and have or will do very well out of it. Good on them! They started in an unknown business and took a risk that could have turned out badly like any other person starting a new venture.

My criticism lays solely on the Govt who did not have the foresight to do this in a constructive manor. - lets presume, no matter what your personnel opinions are for a moment for the sake of what im going to say, that Carbon forestry is needed to tackle climate change. Whether it is or not is irrelevant as thats the course the world seems to have decided on.

Ok, so we have the situation where lack of foresight has created mega large companies owning hundreds of thousands of hectares of land have planted trees that may well mean that land never earns this country money. Instead its possible/likely going to end up severely reducing or closing down communities as family farms shut down and people move away and there is long term no employment. Which in turn will effect the small towns as there is less to be spent in agricultural service industries.
All the while indicating that you will be creating more regulation and disincentive to farmers in an effort to reduce their carbon outputs etc. which leads many of us to consider leaving.
Would it not have been better for the govt to supply no interest loans to those family farms to cover them setting up and think about areas of thier land that could be better used in carbon forestry themselves, while maintaining the better productive land in agricultural production. By year 12 that loan will be repaid and the communities would still exist.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

Pretty much agree. Except for the Carbon clown bit.

From what I have seen these people had the foresight to see an opportunity and have or will do very well out of it. Good on them! They started in an unknown business and took a risk that could have turned out badly like any other person starting a new venture.

My criticism lays solely on the Govt who did not have the foresight to do this in a constructive manor. - lets presume, no matter what your personnel opinions are for a moment for the sake of what im going to say, that Carbon forestry is needed to tackle climate change. Whether it is or not is irrelevant as thats the course the world seems to have decided on.

Ok, so we have the situation where lack of foresight has created mega large companies owning hundreds of thousands of hectares of land have planted trees that may well mean that land never earns this country money. Instead its possible/likely going to end up severely reducing or closing down communities as family farms shut down and people move away and there is long term no employment. Which in turn will effect the small towns as there is less to be spent in agricultural service industries.
All the while indicating that you will be creating more regulation and disincentive to farmers in an effort to reduce their carbon outputs etc. which leads many of us to consider leaving.
Would it not have been better for the govt to supply no interest loans to those family farms to cover them setting up and think about areas of thier land that could be better used in carbon forestry themselves, while maintaining the better productive land in agricultural production. By year 12 that loan will be repaid and the communities would still exist.

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I agree with your thinking @whanahuia. Farming has never been an easy lifestyle, but it surely has its challenges now with all the red tape and compliance that comes with it.

I'm hoping a change in government can help turn back the tide for farmers and get them and the upcoming generation able to move 2 steps forward.

said same govt COULD also make sure the forestry being used for carbon credits was either native to stat there forever or exotic planted in such a place or such a way it would be rotationally harvested in sustaainable manner with inclusion to remove majority of slash to centralised place to be utilised as firewood to heat the homes of rest of country...the amount of wood that went out in recent floods would have heated countries homes for a season.... seeing slash piles brings a tear to my eyes..utter waste. the gate days,some places have should be mandatory and the operators made to put slash out where its easy to get to..hells bells with a fella buncher they could ring it up too..added cost,but not entirely unfeasable to do.heck I WOULD happily pay $100 per cord for rings ,drive up and load trailer .

A government who can’t see the wood for the trees unfortunately

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

said same govt COULD also make sure the forestry being used for carbon credits was either native to stat there forever or exotic planted in such a place or such a way it would be rotationally harvested in sustaainable manner with inclusion to remove majority of slash to centralised place to be utilised as firewood to heat the homes of rest of country...the amount of wood that went out in recent floods would have heated countries homes for a season.... seeing slash piles brings a tear to my eyes..utter waste. the gate days,some places have should be mandatory and the operators made to put slash out where its easy to get to..hells bells with a fella buncher they could ring it up too..added cost,but not entirely unfeasable to do.heck I WOULD happily pay $100 per cord for rings ,drive up and load trailer .

Trouble is MD they don't want you burning wood in your woodburner, prefer if you use electricity created by the "clean" burning Indonesian coal.

There is actually a solution in practice in other parts of the world. When I was in Sweden I was amazed at the trucks coming and cleaning up the slash, right down to twigs and leaves.

They are using it as a biofuel to replace coal and oil. Its pretty close to carbon neutral if you consider the forest is replanted. Harder to do here given the terrain, but not impossible if we modify the system a touch. The biggest issue I see is cost- we are used to cheap electricity and Id say its more expensive.

https://www.woodbusiness.ca/swedish-slash-227/

Originally Posted by whanahuia

Pretty much agree. Except for the Carbon clown bit.

From what I have seen these people had the foresight to see an opportunity and have or will do very well out of it. Good on them! They started in an unknown business and took a risk that could have turned out badly like any other person starting a new venture.

My criticism lays solely on the Govt who did not have the foresight to do this in a constructive manor. - lets presume, no matter what your personnel opinions are for a moment for the sake of what im going to say, that Carbon forestry is needed to tackle climate change. Whether it is or not is irrelevant as thats the course the world seems to have decided on.

Ok, so we have the situation where lack of foresight has created mega large companies owning hundreds of thousands of hectares of land have planted trees that may well mean that land never earns this country money. Instead its possible/likely going to end up severely reducing or closing down communities as family farms shut down and people move away and there is long term no employment. Which in turn will effect the small towns as there is less to be spent in agricultural service industries.
All the while indicating that you will be creating more regulation and disincentive to farmers in an effort to reduce their carbon outputs etc. which leads many of us to consider leaving.
Would it not have been better for the govt to supply no interest loans to those family farms to cover them setting up and think about areas of thier land that could be better used in carbon forestry themselves, while maintaining the better productive land in agricultural production. By year 12 that loan will be repaid and the communities would still exist.

Yep, you are on the money.

I used the term carbon clown simply for poetic effect.

We have planted over a third of our farm in Pines. Originally as a production forest, but now will be claiming carbon credits.

Plantation forestry has always (last 30 years) made more profit than sheep and beef when annualised. Trouble being no one (other than massive corporations) can handle the zero income for 25 years till harvest. Indeed there are pruning and thinning costs to be paid for.

Now we will have an annual income. Of at least twice what Beefies provided. At todays Carbon value each Ha of pines will generate about 25K of profit in the first 17 years.

And the negative?
Roughly 500 families worth of animal protein per year will not be produced from our little farm.

With less outputs, so you make more and spend less. Better for you, but still not so great for the local economy. But as a mix of revenues its a great idea. We looked at doing the same but in reality just could not afford the initial startup costs and the first period of little income.

Originally Posted by tetawa

Trouble is MD they don't want you burning wood in your woodburner, prefer if you use electricity created by the "clean" burning Indonesian coal.

Fonterra are now powering there drying plants with wood pellets......

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

said same govt COULD also make sure the forestry being used for carbon credits was either native to stat there forever or exotic planted in such a place or such a way it would be rotationally harvested in sustaainable manner with inclusion to remove majority of slash to centralised place to be utilised as firewood to heat the homes of rest of country...the amount of wood that went out in recent floods would have heated countries homes for a season.... seeing slash piles brings a tear to my eyes..utter waste. the gate days,some places have should be mandatory and the operators made to put slash out where its easy to get to..hells bells with a fella buncher they could ring it up too..added cost,but not entirely unfeasable to do.heck I WOULD happily pay $100 per cord for rings ,drive up and load trailer .

But MD , where that slash is now it is way easier for people to gather for firewood than where it was previously.... ?