Thread: Farmer lying about paper road?

As @Tahr observed, these matters can often involve a heap of angst.....however, if it is still a ULR then I have no doubt you are legally entitled to use it. A point that always intrigues me a little is the assertion that if you do use the URL without the cocky's consent 'you'd better be sure you remain on it...'. I'd have expected the onus to be on the cocky to establish you were off the ULR, and on his land before legal action could be upheld? As suggested, I'd enquire of the WAC, and the local Council.....they are almost always the 'owners' of land under roads, formed or otherwise. (unless its a Maori roadway)

I imagine DoC will be able to confirm whether he has a concesion to use the adjoining PCL, and what the terms of that might be?

Walking Access is your best bet. Their maps are up to date and if it shows there is a ULR, then there is a ULR. It will only be taken off the WAMS maps if it is disposed of to somebody. No point in talking to DoC cos they just plain dont you want you there anyways. And they dont have any ULR's - its is public land vested in to the good of NZ, many years ago, to allow the ordinary people access to places.
There is a local Canterbury representative for WAMS, and he/she will look in to it and keep you updated on progress. He/she will also go in to bat for you if the landowner on either side of the ULR wants to be a prick about it.
I was one of many that had issues with some local access to fishing water, and there is a ULR that follows the original path of the waterway. Over the years some parts of the waterway have changed so basically it meanders across the ULR, on to it, off of it etc etc. The local WAMS guy was happy to give me the GPS coordinates to follow so that I could legally walk across open land from each stretch of the waterway that was still within the ULR.

Everything you have described sounds like where I suspect haha it was for sale earlier this year, not sure who bought it though. But a lot of those land owners won't let people have access. Deer stalkers got permission to land for a cull on one property, the neighbors threatened to cut off the guys drinking water. All rumor and hearsay of course. Easiest way is to fly over top, and it's definitely worth it if you do. Even if this place isn't where I'm thinking, the same thoughts and resistance likely apply.

[QUOTE=Hahn;1245641]Everything you have described sounds like where I suspect

Yes - I think I know the location and Land owner too
I know two guys who where taken to Court over it
Both fronted up on Court day with Lawyer and Land owner dropped the case 2 minutes before the start of the case
Mr E - I imagine ?????

[QUOTE=Sarvo;1245669]

Originally Posted by Hahn

Everything you have described sounds like where I suspect

Yes - I think I know the location and Land owner too
I know two guys who where taken to Court over it
Both fronted up on Court day with Lawyer and Land owner dropped the case 2 minutes before the start of the case
Mr E - I imagine ?????

There must be more to the story than that?
Before getting to the court stage a tresspass notice must be issued, either verbally or in writing. But of course if they weren't actually on his land......

[QUOTE=zimmer;1245672]

Originally Posted by Sarvo

There must be more to the story than that?
Before getting to the court stage a tresspass notice must be issued, either verbally or in writing. But of course if they weren't actually on his land......

Yes they were served with Trespass notice
But Court day - prosecution dropped the case

[QUOTE=Sarvo;1245824]

Originally Posted by zimmer

Yes they were served with Trespass notice
But Court day - prosecution dropped the case

Piss poor lawyer? Hadn't done his research. Should never have got that far?

a GPS is your best friend.....they show roads...and tell you where you are..... been down this myself many years ago...we were on both sides of fence so to speak.....

A few things - better to email DOC/WAMS/Councils so you have a written reply. A phone call may be good to start things off but you cannot fall back on who said what. Being a member with the NZDA - especially in the South Island - they have an Access Committee that work through these types of issues using through official channels so may have already dealt with this particular case?

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but here it goes. I reckon the farmer is well within his moral (although perhaps not legal) rights. We have a paper road running straight up the guts of our family farm straight past the woolshed and yards and once you let one person through, you let them all through. We have had poachers up there dumb enough to posts photos of themselves on our placeon facebook, 4wd'ers ripping through stock and leaving gates open letting stock loose. It is a real pain in the arse. It may be legal access on paper, but it is not always practical access.

Originally Posted by hdc

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but here it goes. I reckon the farmer is well within his moral (although perhaps not legal) rights. We have a paper road running straight up the guts of our family farm straight past the woolshed and yards and once you let one person through, you let them all through. We have had poachers up there dumb enough to posts photos of themselves on our placeon facebook, 4wd'ers ripping through stock and leaving gates open letting stock loose. It is a real pain in the arse. It may be legal access on paper, but it is not always practical access.

You don't need to ask for permission to access a paper road although it is good to be courteous. I get that you are affected by it but good, moral people shouldn't be affected by the ferals. I certainly would use the paper road regardless of shitty poachers

As for the OP. I'd call 105 and let them know that you are accessing a paper road across private land and that you are not trespassing. Then go and exercise your right to public land. public land is not private land no matter what a farmer says or desires it to be.

Originally Posted by hdc

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but here it goes. I reckon the farmer is well within his moral (although perhaps not legal) rights. We have a paper road running straight up the guts of our family farm straight past the woolshed and yards and once you let one person through, you let them all through. We have had poachers up there dumb enough to posts photos of themselves on our placeon facebook, 4wd'ers ripping through stock and leaving gates open letting stock loose. It is a real pain in the arse. It may be legal access on paper, but it is not always practical access.

No your being a wanker.

Its a bit like me parking my Dozer across your driveway and saying " you dont need to use that public road when you can just drive acrosd your paddocks".

Originally Posted by norsk

No your being a wanker.

Its a bit like me parking my Dozer across your driveway and saying " you dont need to use that public road when you can just drive acrosd your paddocks".

Righto mate. You've obviously never come home to find someone having a shit in your daffodils. Who pays for the track to be repaired when we get 200mm of rain and the culverts wash out and slips block access. Not the fucking council. When they start stumping up the cash for maintenance, then it can be used by anyone. 95% of the people wanting to use the paper road wouldn't cause an issue, but it's the 5% of entitled wankers that think that because it's a paper road they can go up there and do whatever the fuck they want and cause absolute havoc that ruin it for everyone else.

Originally Posted by hdc

Righto mate. You've obviously never come home to find someone having a shit in your daffodils. Who pays for the track to be repaired when we get 200mm of rain and the culverts wash out and slips block access. Not the fucking council. When they start stumping up the cash for maintenance, then it can be used by anyone. 95% of the people wanting to use the paper road wouldn't cause an issue, but it's the 5% of entitled wankers that think that because it's a paper road they can go up there and do whatever the fuck they want and cause absolute havoc that ruin it for everyone else.

They have a right to use it.
You dont have a right to stop them.

I take it you get to use the track for free though? How many 4x4s go up and down it compared to your farm wagons?

Originally Posted by hdc

Righto mate. You've obviously never come home to find someone having a shit in your daffodils. Who pays for the track to be repaired when we get 200mm of rain and the culverts wash out and slips block access. Not the fucking council. When they start stumping up the cash for maintenance, then it can be used by anyone. 95% of the people wanting to use the paper road wouldn't cause an issue, but it's the 5% of entitled wankers that think that because it's a paper road they can go up there and do whatever the fuck they want and cause absolute havoc that ruin it for everyone else.

I completely understand your point and angst as we have been in that situation on a different property ourselves, however the unformed legal road ( there is no such thing as a paper road ) is not yours no matter how much work you have done to develop it. It belongs to the crown and is under the administration of the local council on the crowns behalf.