Thread: Farmer lying about paper road?

Originally Posted by outdoorlad

@Stocky I’d maybe have another yarn to the cocky and say do you want me going in by myself for a hunt or do you want me organising a forum hunting trip in there via chopper with 6+ blokes! And tonging up his so called pseudo private “Public block”

I'm going to try have another discussion. I'd prefer solve it without threats (even mild ones like shooting up the block, or getting DOC involved with potential illegal damage to public land or even forcing them to put in gates as it simply makes no sense when there is existing infrastructure that could be used and the farmer would have more power to create restrcitions due to them being on his land. I know another property that has a boundary that a mates guides on but unlikely they would allow access but may try that next or atleast to get a closer reference that I'm not going in to smash a heap of deer but rather chase animals of age and quality.

If it comes down to it the ULR is about 50 yards wide the entire way up and pretty easy to stick to just have to bush bash a small portion but id prefer have the farmer on side and not have to potentially cut through a paddock that may be stocked or deal with him potentially trying to mess with my vehicle (ill be bringing a multitude of trail cameras to set up around it). Im not looking to head in until probably late next year so starting sorting this early. No point flying in as they use the local chopper to fly out stags shoot by fat americans and i doubt they would be willing to risk losing work for flying me.

Originally Posted by Tahr

@muzza Yes. Sometimes paper roads are what they call "stopped" by councils and they lose their special status.

Personally, I don't think that challenging farmers about paper roads is worth the fuss. Creates angst all round.

Again Tahr best post in this thread.
And most people that posted seem to wonder why farmers won't let them through but read the responses.
We have a fairly heavily used paper road through our farm that a few forum people use regularly, yes the gates locked thats because if you slide of the track in your car and die its on us, but your welcome to walk it anytime,
No the council has never maintained it thats all the farmer.
The other fact that no one's caught onto is often the "paper" road on a topo map is actually miles from the actual paper road something some of you should keep in mind, some paper roads have also been swapped with Doc for access around boundaries after bulldozing and maintenance all at the cost to the farmers.
The hate on farmers here recently is hard to take and yet you wonder why you can't get onto farms.....

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Our old farm had a paper road (and still does) that went through the front, then followed the boundary with the neighbours. Most of the bit at the front pretty much followed the farm road to the woolshed, but not far after that there was no way you could get a vehicle along it, it was way too steep, you probably couldn't even keep to the legal road on a horse.
In the 15 years we owned the farm, only one guy ever used it, he was fossil hunting and used to come about once a year.

Originally Posted by BRADS

Again Tahr best post in this thread.
And most people that posted seem to wonder why farmers won't let them through but read the responses.
We have a fairly heavily used paper road through our farm that a few forum people use regularly, yes the gates locked thats because if you slide of the track in your car and die its on us, but your welcome to walk it anytime,
No the council has never maintained it thats all the farmer.
The other fact that no one's caught onto is often the "paper" road on a topo map is actually miles from the actual paper road something some of you should keep in mind, some paper roads have also been swapped with Doc for access around boundaries after bulldozing and maintenance all at the cost to the farmers.
The hate on farmers here recently is hard to take and yet you wonder why you can't get onto farms.....

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Yeah cause some farmers are cunts believe or not

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Originally Posted by NRT

Yeah cause some farmers are cunts believe or not

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You mistakenly meant that for the Covid 19 thread yes ???

Originally Posted by NRT

Yeah cause some farmers are cunts believe or not

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At least those things are useful.

Originally Posted by Tahr

At least those things are useful.

At your age..? Whasya secret?

Originally Posted by outlander

At your age..? Whasya secret?

Its more about my memory holding up than about anything else holding up

Originally Posted by BRADS

Again Tahr best post in this thread.
And most people that posted seem to wonder why farmers won't let them through but read the responses.
We have a fairly heavily used paper road through our farm that a few forum people use regularly, yes the gates locked thats because if you slide of the track in your car and die its on us, but your welcome to walk it anytime,
No the council has never maintained it thats all the farmer.
The other fact that no one's caught onto is often the "paper" road on a topo map is actually miles from the actual paper road something some of you should keep in mind, some paper roads have also been swapped with Doc for access around boundaries after bulldozing and maintenance all at the cost to the farmers.
The hate on farmers here recently is hard to take and yet you wonder why you can't get onto farms.....

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The paper road thing has been brought up as mentioned near page 2 about this is a "paper" Road from Wams not some track on a topo which I agree means nothing just like the many private huts on topos. I'm not hating on farmers and dislike the comments below as it helps nothing but in this case can you really defend a guy lying about a legal access potentially putting illegal tracks into public land. I don't hate farmers my entire family are farmers so completely understand the inconvenience hence why I'm not making any argument to have him make a track. I just want to walk into a block that I legally can and would prefer give them the option to let me walk the track and not have to jump or duck under his. Fences in regards to liability that argument is a bit loose as if they are on the road it's not the farmers problem otherwise pretty much all the south island easements over stations would would mean they are screwed as people drown trucks regularly.

I guess to the farmers here validating this behaviour how do you differentiate this from the government banning firearms because of a select few individuals actions? Or do you not complain about them.

And equally to those that are maybe getting a bit anti farmers maybe try consider why they are frustrated and try give them a little consideration (don't have to agree with there opinions but I can see why they have them as they manage and maintain there farms as they see fit and its very easy for a few to ruin it.

I just don't see how one thinks it fair to try stop people using a legal access that exists solely to allow access to public land.

Originally Posted by BRADS

Again Tahr best post in this thread.
And most people that posted seem to wonder why farmers won't let them through but read the responses.
We have a fairly heavily used paper road through our farm that a few forum people use regularly, yes the gates locked thats because if you slide of the track in your car and die its on us, but your welcome to walk it anytime,
No the council has never maintained it thats all the farmer.
The other fact that no one's caught onto is often the "paper" road on a topo map is actually miles from the actual paper road something some of you should keep in mind, some paper roads have also been swapped with Doc for access around boundaries after bulldozing and maintenance all at the cost to the farmers.
The hate on farmers here recently is hard to take and yet you wonder why you can't get onto farms.....

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it goes both ways though, the country no longer revolves around farmers anymore.

Obviously you should have peaceful enjoyment of your land.
However if there is a legal right of access to public land then why should the public let the land they own get eaten by pseudo "private blocks" because a farmer wants to hunt it or stop other's from using it?

To others, your farm is not as important when compared to their access to public land. (is that saying the quiet part out loud?) Doesn't mean that they shouldn't accommodate you or act in good faith.

Goes without saying that there's no animosity on my part.

Originally Posted by Stocky

I just don't see how one thinks it fair to try stop people using a legal access that exists solely to allow access to public land.

He does it cos he knows he can get away with it.

Many farmers act with impunity on all sorts of issues, because they know that the likelihood of a council officer or any other kind of officer doing anything about it is low. That’s not hating on farmers, @BRADS, just how it is and I’m sure you know that too.

Not all farmers, but some. They get away with it. A few are complete bastards. Most aren’t, and are decent ordinary folk. Just like the rest of society.

The reason this paper road / ULR problem exists is simply because it hasn’t been actively enforced in a systematic, consistent manner. It’s a legacy problem from a bygone era that has become horribly complicated by the passage of time. The territorial authorities hate dealing with the ULR problem, but ultimately if you are unable to negotiate access directly with the landowner, that’s who you must consult, the council, and request their assistance.

Originally Posted by NRT

Yeah cause some farmers are cunts believe or not

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There is never a more accurate statement some road end farmers are the biggest fuckstains I've ever meet and a embarrassment to the rest of us.
But there in the minority and I feel the farmer hate here is more than a minority.

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Ok , my thoughts are this , read Tahrs post was probably correct 10-15 years ago but now mostly Id disagree for the simple reason it’s not solely upto the council to dispose of roads if there’s any interest in using the road especially to access rivers or doc land Wams will be all over it , in legal terms a road is a road wether it’s formed or not , iv had a few battles over this , Iv always taken the stance of being polite and go out and actually meet the voice at the end of the phone , almost any landowner will get on the defence but it’s worth while persisting as opposed to just getting angry and getting on the phone to Wams don’t get me wrong they are great and in my experience will sort it out for you however the help does come at a cost and that is that the work they do gets highlighted to the public of Nz , especially easements that often do not show up on there maps , my advice print off the map that clearly highlights the road , take both versions as in go to base maps & print off the satellite image, it’s handy for referencing tree lines , ridges etc , go see the cocky and thrash it out , last resort is contacting Wams , again I’m not rubbishing them in any way but private arrangements are a bit more beneficial .
The walking access commission was formed after the government tried to open access up to the public over leased land so that’s huge tracts of essentially public land tied up in a lease in some cases in the high country it’s literally mountain ranges , but federated farmers got on the bandwagon & the idea was scrapped however that is how Wams was formed .Good Luck

Originally Posted by BRADS

There is never a more accurate statement some road end farmers are the biggest fuckstains I've ever meet and a embarrassment to the rest of us.
But there in the minority and I feel the farmer hate here is more than a minority.

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I agree that plenty of hunters are pretty disrespectful of hunters I'd not the say the majority but I'd say the minority that lack the basic respect towards people are also the ones your likely to hear speaking up as they are also the type to dumb to know when to shut up.

Originally Posted by Stocky

The paper road thing has been brought up as mentioned near page 2 about this is a "paper" Road from Wams not some track on a topo which I agree means nothing just like the many private huts on topos. I'm not hating on farmers and dislike the comments below as it helps nothing but in this case can you really defend a guy lying about a legal access potentially putting illegal tracks into public land. I don't hate farmers my entire family are farmers so completely understand the inconvenience hence why I'm not making any argument to have him make a track. I just want to walk into a block that I legally can and would prefer give them the option to let me walk the track and not have to jump or duck under his. Fences in regards to liability that argument is a bit loose as if they are on the road it's not the farmers problem otherwise pretty much all the south island easements over stations would would mean they are screwed as people drown trucks regularly.

I guess to the farmers here validating this behaviour how do you differentiate this from the government banning firearms because of a select few individuals actions? Or do you not complain about them.

And equally to those that are maybe getting a bit anti farmers maybe try consider why they are frustrated and try give them a little consideration (don't have to agree with there opinions but I can see why they have them as they manage and maintain there farms as they see fit and its very easy for a few to ruin it.

I just don't see how one thinks it fair to try stop people using a legal access that exists solely to allow access to public land.

Just remember, legally you may have the right to access a paper road, but also legally he does not have to support, help or accept you using it. He is allowed to not like it, and he is allowed to discourage it or be unhelpful. It is not yet illegal to lie (god knows our politicians would never pass a law banning their favourite pastime....) And he has the right to disagree with you using it just as you have the right to disagree with him not liking it. This does not stop you having legal access, but it can make the difference between being a pleasant experience and one you would rather forget.

All I can say is there are reasons for these opinions on both sides. One guy I knew has stories of what he lost to people using the road (stock, property etc) that made me ashamed to be associated with hunters even though I knew almost all were not like that. (In fact I would say all because the ones that would do what he described might think they are hunters but they truly were not...) There are some absolute ratbags out there, and these seem to be the ones who are most frequent on paper roads where there are frosty receptions...