Thread: Forest & Bird v The Wapiti Herd

Originally Posted by Happy Jack

Possibly the ones you dry and stick in a pipe

But not willow, poplar, macro, gum or pine?

Woulda thought that along with a management plan amendment this provision might have provided at least some of the wriggle room required:

[/I]
51A Other activities in parks
(1)
The Minister may do, or authorise a person to do, any thing that the Minister considers appropriate for the proper and beneficial management, administration, and control of a park.
(2)
If there is a management plan for the park, the Minister must not do, or authorise a person to do, any thing that is inconsistent with the management plan.
(3)
If the Minister authorises a person to do any thing, the Minister may impose any terms and conditions the Minister considers appropriate in the circumstances, including a condition requiring the payment of fees.[/I]

After all, there is commercial ski field infrastructure in 2 NI Nat Parks?

Originally Posted by Husky1600#2

A few yearts back, a fella that was way more wise than me told me that you will get nowhere fighting a "group" from the outside, if you wanta see results fight them from the inside. There is nothing stopping us from joining F&B and turning up to their meetings and having our say as a member. And if enough of us joined and responsibly and eloquently put our case forward, over time their may be a change. Get enough members behind you and you could get elected to the committee, and then National Exec. Now that would certainly put a cat amongst the pigeons!

That would be very interesting indeed!!

Have also emailed them to say how much this saddens me and telling them we all need to work together. Doubt the message will get through but hey at least I have done something.

F & B, the only group that objected to Rakiura Hunter Camp Trust being granted a concession to build and maintain huts on the hunting blocks on Stewart Island replacing all the old bivvies that used to exist and substantial reducing the impacts of site degradation and rubbish. They can’t stand the fact that hunters can do something constructive.

Originally Posted by wtd

F & B, the only group that objected to Rakiura Hunter Camp Trust being granted a concession to build and maintain huts on the hunting blocks on Stewart Island replacing all the old bivvies that used to exist and substantial reducing the impacts of site degradation and rubbish. They can’t stand the fact that hunters can do something constructive.

Ffs

The enemy has shown itself - Started with Eugenie Sage before she was elected into Parliment as the DOC minister

The ideologues are getting increasingly desperate it seems resorting to such open and blatant acts of vandalism.

Blocking the building of huts in steward island is one thing,but I cant imagine the public would approve the idea of eradicating wapiti in fjordland.

Their (financial) support is going to diminish. Already sending people door to door to beg for money, would not be surprised if we hear about them having funding problems soon...

I believe that they lost their charitable status before the 2017 election as they were considered to be a political organisation. Seems it got restored after the election.

I read this when it was published and thought it was quite a good write-up of both sides of the argument. Technically speaking Forest&Bird are correct, however that would immediately change if a Herd of Special Interest was designated formally. The minute that happens their legal challenge goes away. I think we've got a real opportunity right now with the Herd of Special Interest being closer than ever to formal recognition of the Wapiti herd.

I think where we do ourselves alot of harm with getting personal and nasty over our comments about F&B and their leadership. Ultimately they are an organisation pushing their agenda, exactly what NZDA and Game Animal Council are doing, and they all have an equal right to. Its good to see a few people making positive comments about the good people that do volunteer for F&B. This forum, NZDA, GMA, or anyone getting personal or petty about the situation keeps setting us back. We'd make more progress offering to help F&B initiatives we believe in like rodent trapping, and politely oppose their goals we don't agree with. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

The article - in the second half - talks alot about how we already have the support of Govt and DOC around Wapiti control and the Wapiti Foundation's work in general. So the way I see it, overall Hunters are 'winning' this debate and hopefully it sets a precedence for future herds of special interest and further conservation work.

Finally, F&B have alot of power because they have alot of members, who donate alot of money. Our NZDA numbers are nowhere in their ballpark last time I checked. I reckon my annual NZDA fee is peanuts to fund activists and conversation to protect hunting in a country where there is stacks of game and easy access (compared to a expensive ballot system like the US). If NZDA had members and funding in the ballpark of F&B it would be awesome to see how much our mutual interests and conservation work could be done.

Originally Posted by Average-Lad

I read this when it was published and thought it was quite a good write-up of both sides of the argument. Technically speaking Forest&Bird are correct, however that would immediately change if a Herd of Special Interest was designated formally. The minute that happens their legal challenge goes away. I think we've got a real opportunity right now with the Herd of Special Interest being closer than ever to formal recognition of the Wapiti herd.

I think where we do ourselves alot of harm with getting personal and nasty over our comments about F&B and their leadership. Ultimately they are an organisation pushing their agenda, exactly what NZDA and Game Animal Council are doing, and they all have an equal right to. Its good to see a few people making positive comments about the good people that do volunteer for F&B. This forum, NZDA, GMA, or anyone getting personal or petty about the situation keeps setting us back. We'd make more progress offering to help F&B initiatives we believe in like rodent trapping, and politely oppose their goals we don't agree with. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

The article - in the second half - talks alot about how we already have the support of Govt and DOC around Wapiti control and the Wapiti Foundation's work in general. So the way I see it, overall Hunters are 'winning' this debate and hopefully it sets a precedence for future herds of special interest and further conservation work.

Finally, F&B have alot of power because they have alot of members, who donate alot of money. Our NZDA numbers are nowhere in their ballpark last time I checked. I reckon my annual NZDA fee is peanuts to fund activists and conversation to protect hunting in a country where there is stacks of game and easy access (compared to a expensive ballot system like the US). If NZDA had members and funding in the ballpark of F&B it would be awesome to see how much our mutual interests and conservation work could be done.

Well said fella.

Join em as said before. Change wm from the inside

Originally Posted by Average-Lad

I read this when it was published and thought it was quite a good write-up of both sides of the argument. Technically speaking Forest&Bird are correct, however that would immediately change if a Herd of Special Interest was designated formally. The minute that happens their legal challenge goes away. I think we've got a real opportunity right now with the Herd of Special Interest being closer than ever to formal recognition of the Wapiti herd.

I think where we do ourselves alot of harm with getting personal and nasty over our comments about F&B and their leadership. Ultimately they are an organisation pushing their agenda, exactly what NZDA and Game Animal Council are doing, and they all have an equal right to. Its good to see a few people making positive comments about the good people that do volunteer for F&B. This forum, NZDA, GMA, or anyone getting personal or petty about the situation keeps setting us back. We'd make more progress offering to help F&B initiatives we believe in like rodent trapping, and politely oppose their goals we don't agree with. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

The article - in the second half - talks alot about how we already have the support of Govt and DOC around Wapiti control and the Wapiti Foundation's work in general. So the way I see it, overall Hunters are 'winning' this debate and hopefully it sets a precedence for future herds of special interest and further conservation work.

Finally, F&B have alot of power because they have alot of members, who donate alot of money. Our NZDA numbers are nowhere in their ballpark last time I checked. I reckon my annual NZDA fee is peanuts to fund activists and conversation to protect hunting in a country where there is stacks of game and easy access (compared to a expensive ballot system like the US). If NZDA had members and funding in the ballpark of F&B it would be awesome to see how much our mutual interests and conservation work could be done.

Yep, thats all achingly reasonable, but I do wonder how that approach goes when dealing with a bad faith counterparty? The best use of the high ground is when you can machine-gun the attackers, surely?

The twig and crap started way before Sage. I remember the same bs being used to try poisoning trout in nat park headwaters. Derris dust was used as a very effective killer of aquatic fauna. The even used in in zealanidia to kill brown trout. They are extremeists and destructive and IMO they infiltrate doc hierarcchy and the regional doc management groups. Best action I think is to lobby MP's and work with the wapiti foundation as well as letters to local papers etc.
They don't like mallard duck or canada geese, cattle, sheep, pigs et al either. Tell the loopys to go kill all thr cats if they care about the environment.

Don't ever forget that Sage came from twi n tweet into the Greens and was appointed by Labour Green coalition as Min Conservation whereupon she proceded to exterminate Tahr. The Labour Green coalition also proved to be anti gun oenership. They are NOT OUR FRIENDS. Nor are they friends of cour primary industries eg farmers or of access to whitebaiting beaches or hunting access. They wilk be sniggering at the coming expenses in court suffered by taxpayers thru DoC and our support groups. They are financed by the mugs who pay subs in some ignorance of where the funds are being channelled; i.e. ahainst many Newzealanders. The current ippostuon MP's are not our friends by any stretch.