Thread: FWF Ban for Non Attendance

Anyone on social media see the Bloke that got banned for 4 years for pulling out of his ballot due to weather.
I figured it's an interesting one to discuss (and I mean discuss not through a shit fit when some of us inevitably disagree) on here.

Here's a copy paste of the post.

"Was lucky enough to draw a wapiti block for this year's bugle. A life long dream! Was absolute fizzing to get in there. Come our period, the weather forecast was next level terrible.

Long story short, BEST case scenario was going to cost us 2k each for 48 hours of hunting(not even consecutive hours) , WORSE case was going to be 4k.

As some of you could understand, it's very hard to justify that sort of money for so little hunting.

We pulled out as the forecast was that terrible you would be putting yourself at danger camping out in that sort of weather.

Roger Foote gave us a 4 year ban for this.

I told him what I thought of his desicion and he gave me a 10 year ban and hung up on me.

What I cant get my head round is why we get punished?

I would have thought putting yourself in danger is the last thing you want to be doing in fiordland. Duley wouldnt even go in those conditions. So we get punished for being sensible hunters.

Also if we don't go in, is that not better for the wapiti herd as that's less people hunting them?

Am I being unreasonable or is this the real life of a wapiti ballot. No excuses allowed to not go, even if it's for the safety of human lifes!

Very proud of what the Wapiti Foundation do and are a great example of Game management. Pretty disappointed to know they expect you to put yourself at danger or be prepared to get a ban."

I have mixed opinions on this as its clearly stated that if you pull out after the 20th of Feb you will face a ban and weather is an well known risk of any hunting ballot. But without knowing how the discussion went I think the 10 year ban seems quite harsh however if it was a heated argument I can see how it happened.

Whats everyone thoughts? Fair enough? Not fair?

I don't think they were saying that anyone had to go in to be honest more that they should be waiting for if the weather cleared like many other parties do.

As long as they paid the ballot fee it's difficult to see the problem with not actually going in to hunt if the weather was appalling. Be interesting to hear the FWF's perspective on this as we've only got one side here.

It’s literally written in the rules that you receive when you win a block. I suspect he pulled out of the same period we went in. Yea the weather looked crap and it was crap but we still had a wicked time. It’s fiordland, what do you expect.. They can’t manage late notice cancellations. It would be an administration nightmare sorting every second party who gets scared of the wet hence the date for cancellations is set at 20 Feb to give them some breathing room for sorting issues.

The duration of the ban he received does seem excessive for sure though.

To be fair, if they didn't ban him, and he won a ballot the next year people would find out and start saying its rigged etc as they dont follow the rules they make.

Seems pretty harsh for a 4 year ban, then 10 for no doubt being a smart ass.

My money is he had dark river or some other borderline average block, I bet if he had the edith they would have gone.

I got banned for 2 years for not doing my kea form. To be fair I flew out to Argentina the night I got out and my form got wet and couldn't be read. By the time I remembered to hand it in I had forgotten what I had seen anyway sondidnt see the point in making it up.

Originally Posted by stagstalker

It’s literally written in the rules that you receive when you win a block. I suspect he pulled out of the same period we went in. Yea the weather looked crap and it was crap but we still had a wicked time. It’s fiordland, what do you expect.. They can’t manage late notice cancellations. It would be an administration nightmare sorting every second party who gets scared of the wet hence the date for cancellations is set at 20 Feb to give them some breathing room for sorting issues.

It's actually available before you apply I know this rule as didn't apply last year as I knew I couldn't guarantee getting time of work to go so didn't apply.

I 100% get they broke the rules there's not doubt. Just thought its and interesting discussion to have.

Originally Posted by gimp

As long as they paid the ballot fee it's difficult to see the problem with not actually going in to hunt if the weather was appalling. Be interesting to hear the FWF's perspective on this as we've only got one side here.

Yeh but the idea is to get hunters into the blocks and the rules are pretty clear. If every aucklander scared of melting in the rain pulled out there would be a tonne of unused ballots and realistically not many people can organise to do a fiordland trip with even a months notice. I do see it as a bit harsh especially as its not even the core blocks but I can see both sides.

Originally Posted by PerazziSC3

To be fair, if they didn't ban him, and he won a ballot the next year people would find out and start saying its rigged etc as they dont follow the rules they make.

Seems pretty harsh for a 4 year ban, then 10 for no doubt being a smart ass.

My money is he had dark river or some other borderline average block, I bet if he had the edith they would have gone.

I got banned for 2 years for not doing my kea form. To be fair I flew out to Argentina the night I got out and my form got wet and couldn't be read. By the time I remembered to hand it in I had forgotten what I had seen anyway sondidnt see the point in making it up.

I actually think that makes sense that if they let people get away with breaking the rules all of a sudden guys are going to push the limits of things. He was gonna heli so it wasnt any of the cores. And I agree. I feel its slightly regret and not wanting to spend money on an average block in average weather. That's why I only ever apply for blocks I'd be stoked to hunt as its expensive no matter how you look at it as its 12 days leave and travel etc to do it plus all the niggly bits.

Unfortunate about the kea form ban but it is in the rules. Did you by any chance debate your ban? I think the 4 years was harsh enough unless the guys was being a real prick.

Have just read the post on VH, the whole 200 odd of them. As has been pointed out, the rules do state that if you pull out after the 20th Feb, you will get a 4 year ban. If they turned up to the briefing and then didn't go, would there have been a 4 year ban? Who knows at this point, but it would have been a considerable amount of driving to comply with the briefing ruling. Some hunters have posted that they went in for the same period and had some hunting, but aint hindsight a wonderful thing! How would we feel if those hunters that chose to fly in for that period, having taken all the weather forecasts and local conditions in to consideration, and then the shit hit the fan and we lost some of those fellow hunters. I dont have the answers, but what I do know is the hunter that was banned for 4 years, and then a further 6 years, was a very experienced hunter, like very bloody experienced, and has considerable experience in South Westland and shit weather. He checked all the available info on the weather, he talked to the chopper pilots and decided that the personal risk wasnt worth it. I would prefer that all of us hunters made responsible decisions like this rather than us having to read on FB that we've lost them because of poor decisions. It is completely irrelevant that there was a few hours of better weather than was predicted, its the bloody weather! We aint got any control over that.
And then for a member of a very well respected organisation, the FWF, to lose his shit because he cant handle the pressures associated with his position and arbitrarily ban the hunter for another 6 years is just plain BS! If you cant handle the jandal, then get the hell out of Dodge! At the very least I would expect a public apology for his lack of ability to deal with a stressed out hunter on the phone. And I would expect the FWF to withdraw the 6 year ban.

Too much unknown information in order to form an opinion.

What was the weather forecast, was it as bad as he made it out to be. Fiordland environment and weather shouldnt be taken lightly. I lived there long enough to know and Dad was often called in as part of Search and rescue as he knew the area like the back of his hand.

What block was it?

Was be being a dick?

Guessing shit and making stuff up like "for no doubt being a smart ass." and "My money is he had dark river or some other borderline average block, I bet if he had the edith they would have gone."

does no one any favours.

More info required.

Originally Posted by Husky1600

Have just read the post on VH, the whole 200 odd of them. As has been pointed out, the rules do state that if you pull out after the 20th Feb, you will get a 4 year ban. If they turned up to the briefing and then didn't go, would there have been a 4 year ban? Who knows at this point, but it would have been a considerable amount of driving to comply with the briefing ruling. Some hunters have posted that they went in for the same period and had some hunting, but aint hindsight a wonderful thing! How would we feel if those hunters that chose to fly in for that period, having taken all the weather forecasts and local conditions in to consideration, and then the shit hit the fan and we lost some of those fellow hunters. I dont have the answers, but what I do know is the hunter that was banned for 4 years, and then a further 6 years, was a very experienced hunter, like very bloody experienced, and has considerable experience in South Westland and shit weather. He checked all the available info on the weather, he talked to the chopper pilots and decided that the personal risk wasnt worth it. I would prefer that all of us hunters made responsible decisions like this rather than us having to read on FB that we've lost them because of poor decisions. It is completely irrelevant that there was a few hours of better weather than was predicted, its the bloody weather! We aint got any control over that.
And then for a member of a very well respected organisation, the FWF, to lose his shit because he cant handle the pressures associated with his position and arbitrarily ban the hunter for another 6 years is just plain BS! If you cant handle the jandal, then get the hell out of Dodge! At the very least I would expect a public apology for his lack of ability to deal with a stressed out hunter on the phone. And I would expect the FWF to withdraw the 6 year ban.

I understand your point but if he had shown up to the briefing and hung around (perhaps hunted the general country around Fiordland) the improved weather could have meant he could have hunted still. He took that opportunity from another group.

I understand the not doing dumb shit but I doubt it's the worst weather anyone been stuck in fiordland with.

Do you know him personally?

I'd say if he turned up to the briefing then he wouldn't have got a ban. It would have gone a long way to show it wasn't just not wanting to hunt in the rain. It's impossible for them to know anyone's background.

As for Roger Footes reaction we only know one side of the story and I think while harsh if someones a rude prick (not saying he was) then I wouldn't blame him for extending the ban (even if they don't enforce that part).

I agree we want everyone to be safe but when you apply for Fiordland you should be planning for what that entails which is terrible weather. And realistically you should be making every effort to attend as it's a trip of a lifetime for many.

Originally Posted by Stocky

I understand your point but if he had shown up to the briefing and hung around (perhaps hunted the general country around Fiordland) the improved weather could have meant he could have hunted still. He took that opportunity from another group.

I understand the not doing dumb shit but I doubt it's the worst weather anyone been stuck in fiordland with.

Do you know him personally?

I'd say if he turned up to the briefing then he wouldn't have got a ban. It would have gone a long way to show it wasn't just not wanting to hunt in the rain. It's impossible for them to know anyone's background.

As for Roger Footes reaction we only know one side of the story and I think while harsh if someones a rude prick (not saying he was) then I wouldn't blame him for extending the ban (even if they don't enforce that part).

I agree we want everyone to be safe but when you apply for Fiordland you should be planning for what that entails which is terrible weather. And realistically you should be making every effort to attend as it's a trip of a lifetime for many.

Has the FWF actually said that if you turn up for the briefing, then all is good, you wont/cant be banned? Nobody has been able to give me the answer. Or.....if you turn up to the briefing but then dont actually go hunting, can you be banned? Again. I dont know and nobody has yet to give a definitive answer. If you can be banned for not actually going hunting on your block, then theres a whole lot of other hunters that should be banned for turning up on the block and sitting in their tents and not going hunting, honestly where do we draw the line.

If he turned up to the briefing to ensure he didn't get banned, and then chose to not go hunting, then no he didn't take the opportunity away from another party, he made sensible decisions to ensure his safety and the "other" party would never had had the opportunity to hunt if he had been there anyway.

We all know Fiordland weather [the Ozzies probably dont], most of us have hunted in that crap, some even relish in it. And it may not have been the worst weather anyone has been stuck in Fiordland with, but that does not come in to it. We take responsibility for our own actions based on our knowledge base and info we gather from around us prior to undertaking an activity. He made those decisions, and for that Im thankful.

Yes I do know him personally, have hunted with him a couple of times, had the occasional beer with him over the years. And when my best mate of 38 years tells me he's a good bastard and stands by him, then I take his word that he's a good bastard. This young fella is more than capable of looking after himself when the shit goes down.

I can fully understand Roger Foote's reaction, but I dont agree with it. When you are responsible for something that is precious to many of us, and you take money for that, then you had better be capable of handling a shitty customer. And this time he didn't. Its not too difficult to make it right, even now. A simple apology and drop the added 6 years. And if that happened then Im pretty sure that it would lead to a few beers and a chance to sitting around the fire spinning a few yarns together, from both parties.

I think one piece of relevant info is the other party sharing the block has come forward and said they went in, and weather wasn't great, but still plenty of hunting and not dangerous.
it came across to me as if the cost of the trip may have been a deciding factor too.
FWF is in a no win situation here, they have rules for a reason and it get really hard to let those go on a case by case basis as it will look like favouritism.
As a north island hunter, if I commit to a trip such as this, I make back up plans. If the weather really is bad, go along and forfeit your obligations, then if you have to pull the pin for safety, head for a Tahr or chamois etc where its safer.
In the end if they pulled for safety, they made right decision and a 4 year ban is just part of the acceptance of that.

Originally Posted by Stocky

I actually think that makes sense that if they let people get away with breaking the rules all of a sudden guys are going to push the limits of things. He was gonna heli so it wasnt any of the cores. And I agree. I feel its slightly regret and not wanting to spend money on an average block in average weather. That's why I only ever apply for blocks I'd be stoked to hunt as its expensive no matter how you look at it as its 12 days leave and travel etc to do it plus all the niggly bits.

Unfortunate about the kea form ban but it is in the rules. Did you by any chance debate your ban? I think the 4 years was harsh enough unless the guys was being a real prick.

Nothing to debate about, I broke a rule so just accepted it even though I did think it was slightly harsh considering it's one little bit of paper that I would have just made up what I wrote down. I had done nearly 40 days hunting in the blocks over the previous 5 ballots and only pulled the trigger once, was due a break anyway.

For me i would have to commit coming down that's the time slot i had time off work, ferry booked etc and worry about weather when i got down there. From north island its basically to days travel each way.
I would have gone to the briefing.
Then for me if the weather was looking real bad and the pilot said stuff that or local advised that weather worse then normal (never been to wapiti country) and had to pull pin
To me i had made a commitment of hunting that block.
but also be prepared to wait out a few days for weather to clear i wouldn't be flying in at the end of my time slot for couple days hunting.


Also coming from north island you do need a back up plan