Thread: Going ‘old school’

There is no difference in the marksmanship between a steel gong, a sheet of paper and a deer. I'm pretty vague as to why you need the deer. Do people find it that hard to find deer they need to "hunt" like this?

I never got it. I always heard people go "shot a deer at 700m" as a big story and I wonder why you fired at a deer at 700m in the first place. My brother shot a plover with a .22LR at around 400m, but it was a flock of about 30, he held over the top of the flock by about 30m and he hit one at the bottom. That plover had no luck to speak of. Not an achievement, but a good story.

As long as the LR part is not stupidly far out there where luck really begins to play a part, all good I say. No its NOT about ethics because you can fuck up the shot at any range.
But I notice even the gun mags are writing total BS about some group sizes !! Even serious LR benchrest guns wont group like some factory rifles ya see reviewed !
So when some inexperieced shooter finds thier rifle only does MOA they think it's crook, or they haven't found the right load or .......
Just keep it real.

Originally Posted by LRP

As long as the LR part is not stupidly far out there where luck really begins to play a part, all good I say. No its NOT about ethics because you can fuck up the shot at any range.
But I notice even the gun mags are writing total BS about some group sizes !! Even serious LR benchrest guns wont group like some factory rifles ya see reviewed !
So when some inexperieced shooter finds thier rifle only does MOA they think it's crook, or they haven't found the right load or .......
Just keep it real.

Liking your input LRP. Well said.

Sales reps are out there selling the hell out of a lot of very gimmicky LR gear. I had some pitched to me recently. They basically claim Joe Bloggs can buy a rifle/ballistic app combo and shoot to silly ranges on game.

If it works the way they say it does, Joe Bloggs will be out shooting the best in the practical LR game.

Originally Posted by Tussock

There is no difference in the marksmanship between a steel gong, a sheet of paper and a deer. I'm pretty vague as to why you need the deer. Do people find it that hard to find deer they need to "hunt" like this?

I never got it. I always heard people go "shot a deer at 700m" as a big story and I wonder why you fired at a deer at 700m in the first place. My brother shot a plover with a .22LR at around 400m, but it was a flock of about 30, he held over the top of the flock by about 30m and he hit one at the bottom. That plover had no luck to speak of. Not an achievement, but a good story.

The same argument can be applied to to any distance. You can hang a gong in tree and shoot it off hand so why shoot a deer? Why go bashing through the scrub? cant you find a deer in the open?

Theses are all stupid arguments.

A wild hail Mary pot shot is also stupid, even if it is at a plover, and has nothing to do with LR hunting.

Originally Posted by sneeze

The same argument can be applied to to any distance. You can hang a gong in tree and shoot it off hand so why shoot a deer? Why go bashing through the scrub? cant you find a deer in the open?

Theses are all stupid arguments.

A wild hail Mary pot shot is also stupid, even if it is at a plover, and has nothing to do with LR hunting.

The word "hunting" is only added for the sake of the ego of the "hunter". Shooting a deer that will never react to you because it is so far away is shooting. If you are at a "long range" the animal is going to have a hard time ever knowing you are there. You can call this hunting if you need to, but I'm not about to.

Why do you just absolutely desperately need the word "hunting" put on long range hunting? For status, otherwise you would not care on way or the other. You want people to think you have skill.

If the skill is shooting, then yes, you obviously have lots. But if the skill is "hunting" then I fail to see how you don't avoid every possible challenge hunting throws at you, but shooting from a really long way away.

You are there to enjoy it. I enjoy the challenge of hunting and I enjoy the challenge of shooting. I can shoot LR. I really genuinely feel ZERO sensation of hunting when I'm sniping things from miles away. If I'm bashing through the bush, that is very hard.

Glassing a clearing and shooting an animal miles away is very very easy. I really have no idea how you can sell it as hard. It is harvesting an animal and there is nothing wrong with that.

This "long range hunting" thing remains a bit embarrassing.

I regret dredging up this ancient argument.

On topic, I am not the proud owner of a TOZ 17, complete with elevation adjustable rear site. For the uninitiated, the TOZ 17 is a Russian made .22 with a very rare magazine that can't take a scope. What they do have is a real rear elevation site that goes all the way out to 250 (meters or yards is not stated). So far the 20m and 50m marks have been bang on, using subs. I assumed Russian .22 ammo was loaded down a bit.

I'm going to calibrate the elevation adjustments all the way out to the maximum, and then it is going to be a LR gong shooting rifle, for small gongs. Should be most entertaining.

Im not asking you to use any label on anything,Im happy for you to call it whatever you like. I call it LR hunting because its easier to say than "gathering deer at some distance that's to great to be hunting". There's also this problem of just exactly were hunting stops and turns into just shooting, if it was a thing, so I find it easier to lump all the different distances into one little basket and call it hunting. Pretty sure its not an ego thing.
I mean imagine how the story would go .
I went hunting... no wait.... was I inside or outside the the Hunting zone, the deer saw me and moved off so it was hunting but then it stopped and I got the range finder out so maybe it was shooting? but it got my scent and went over the ridge so yes definitely hunting but then I found it in the next basin and it was a fair distance so it was shooting.. I think .. maybe ?

Its just more stupid.

Originally Posted by sneeze

Im not asking you to use any label on anything,Im happy for you to call it whatever you like. I call it LR hunting because its easier to say than "gathering deer at some distance that's to great to be hunting". There's also this problem of just exactly were hunting stops and turns into just shooting, if it was a thing, so I find it easier to lump all the different distances into one little basket and call it hunting. Pretty sure its not an ego thing.
I mean imagine how the story would go .
I went hunting... no wait.... was I inside or outside the the Hunting zone, the deer saw me and moved off so it was hunting but then it stopped and I got the range finder out so maybe it was shooting? but it got my scent and went over the ridge so yes definitely hunting but then I found it in the next basin and it was a fair distance so it was shooting.. I think .. maybe ?

Its just more stupid.

We are agreed then and in your case, clearly not an ego thing. There are some who's collars get hot and it is an industry these days.

I agree with you.

Since I got back into hunting a lot of guys I hunted with as kids and even some old dudes have basically said some version of "I hate walking, if you are not blowing over animals it is boring".

I just wonder if this is not creeping in a bit and we will not be up trees like Americans shortly, and whether some sort of line in the sand needs to be drawn to preserve the rare Kiwi hunting ability. Then again, who cares.

Think a lot matters where you live for the gear that is mainly used, not thinking of the guys who do a couple of "fly ins" each year. Hunt where most my shots are under 150 metres so scopes are 1.5x6 to 3-10. Have a couple in the 4-16 range but get minimal use. Too old for open sights, too hard to focus on both front and rear. Got hold of an old BSA Hunter 22 Hornet which still has both open sights on board, don't see that too often these days.

Originally Posted by Tussock

We are agreed then and in your case, clearly not an ego thing. There are some who's collars get hot and it is an industry these days.

I agree with you.

Since I got back into hunting a lot of guys I hunted with as kids and even some old dudes have basically said some version of "I hate walking, if you are not blowing over animals it is boring".

I just wonder if this is not creeping in a bit and we will not be up trees like Americans shortly, and whether some sort of line in the sand needs to be drawn to preserve the rare Kiwi hunting ability. Then again, who cares.

Love the walking, one of the great things about hunting, always found it hard sitting and waiting for a dumb one to walk out.

Originally Posted by Tussock

We are agreed then and in your case, clearly not an ego thing. There are some who's collars get hot and it is an industry these days.

I agree with you.

Since I got back into hunting a lot of guys I hunted with as kids and even some old dudes have basically said some version of "I hate walking, if you are not blowing over animals it is boring".

I just wonder if this is not creeping in a bit and we will not be up trees like Americans shortly, and whether some sort of line in the sand needs to be drawn to preserve the rare Kiwi hunting ability. Then again, who cares.

Well i agree when you say you regret dredging up this ancient argument. but as my previous post was mostly sarcasm that may be all we agree on. I do think its a good place to leave the ancient argument though.

I go duck shooting each season....but I also spend quite a bit of the season hunting ducks....I shoot ducks from a maimai that Ive managed to lure into range...I hunt ducks on foot or from a boat/canoe they are on home turf and Im using my skills to get close enough to shoot quickly and straight enough for the dog to have something to retrieve.

similarly you hunt deer by moving...yanks call it still hunting???? we call it stalking
sitting and sniping wether it be a clearing at 50 yards or a 700 yard cross gully shot is shooting...both are hunting both are better than sitting on the couch.
spook n shoot falls into the first
if you need to use either a rangefinder or dialing up on scope...its the 2nd
who cares??? as long as you make a clean kill and utilise animal its all good in my book.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I go duck shooting each season....but I also spend quite a bit of the season hunting ducks....I shoot ducks from a maimai that Ive managed to lure into range...I hunt ducks on foot or from a boat/canoe they are on home turf and Im using my skills to get close enough to shoot quickly and straight enough for the dog to have something to retrieve.

similarly you hunt deer by moving...yanks call it still hunting???? we call it stalking
sitting and sniping wether it be a clearing at 50 yards or a 700 yard cross gully shot is shooting...both are hunting both are better than sitting on the couch.
spook n shoot falls into the first
if you need to use either a rangefinder or dialing up on scope...its the 2nd
who cares??? as long as you make a clean kill and utilise animal its all good in my book.

I dont care, anyone can call it anything they like. Some of my relatives would use the phrase" going for a shot" with everything hunting related. But this is were the conversation has moved to and I think its a little odd that some have a need to find lines of separation to justify using a different verb. Taking your example of sitting and sniping on a clearing 50 yds away being shooting then where is the difference if while bush stalking I sit and watch a gully head 50 yds away, by sitting down have I turned bush hunting into shooting? If using a range finder and a dial up scope is shooting then the same shot taken by guessing both the range and the holdover is hunting? What about a bow hunter, if he is takes a shot after sitting for a while is that hunting or is it just archery?
Perhaps for those that feel then need for lines of demarcation the more blurred lines require a new verb so as to cover all bases. Taking a shot while sitting during a bush stalk could be hooting? Pulling out a range finder for a shot across a gully while bush stalking could be shunting? A spook and shoot taken while walking into your sniping spot with your long range rig could be Huntping?
Maybe some one should start a lexicon?
Its probably just me being a little odd or maybe lazy but I think Ill just call it all hunting . You are right though its all better than sitting on the couch

I take the rifle for "walkies" if the barrel gets dirty its a bonus.

Ive gone back to old school for a while now stalking in close with the dog, and it’s quite thrilling watching him sneak onto deer and seeing the deers whites of their eyes being busted by a man and his hound. 90% of my hunting is all close in subsonic bang away all day on goats and pigs with the odd deer in between.
I still like using a long range hunting rig and watch the animals from afar uninterrupted interacting with each other and other animals, plenty of time to setup for a well rested shot.

Here’s a yearling hind I got the other day while sitting down having breakfast at camp 400m away, the scope was only set at 4 power for better FOV. I just range and set everything up for the shot then walk the dog 100m down away on the other side of the spur signal him to stay, I go back up to the rifle and take the shot.