Thread: Goodbye possums, rats and stoats

Originally Posted by Tahr

Missing words from previous statements: Gravy-train, conspiracy, duplicate, lies, Graff

Shame on you Tahr. Somebody get out the big white hanky and the violins please

I'm happy to back the future vision rather than be swayed by the disaffected of the past. Truth is, the announcements on this have said that all current effective methodologies will be applied, plus new innovations arising from research. Call me mad or naive, scoff at me, but I'm not knocking it. Probably because I have no vested interest save for the preservation to the greatest extent of our biodiversity. And, I don't give a shit about the politics.

In other words, more smoke and mirrors

Missing words from previous statements: Gravy-train, conspiracy, duplicate, lies, Graff

Shame on you Tahr. Somebody get out the big white hanky and the violins please

I'm happy to back the future vision rather than be swayed by the disaffected of the past. Truth is, the announcements on this have said that all current effective methodologies will be applied, plus new innovations arising from research. Call me mad or naive, scoff at me, but I'm not knocking it. Probably because I have no vested interest save for the preservation to the greatest extent of our biodiversity. And, I don't give a shit about the politics.

Originally Posted by Woody

In other words, more smoke and mirrors

White Hanky??!! Surely you are not surrendering already Woody?

Originally Posted by Tahr

OSPRI have revised this figure to 44% (Advertising Standards Authority submissions).

Otherwise, all of what you say is conjecture and clap trap. If any of these claims (and the various others that you have made) could be or were to be proven to be true through a court case or the public exposure of facts 1080 would be dead in the water. Why hasn't that happened-or is that part of the conspiracy?

FedFarmers and F&B make us hunters look pathetic when it comes to lobbying. I actually admire them.

yet nothing in what mr 243 (who you are replying to) said was actually unproven.
Undoubtedly you admire fed farmers, its very obvious. Im pretty sure this topic qualifies as politics and those who want to further restate their hard wired positions may go elsewhere? Anyone with an open mind can see who is and who isnt buying the bullshit.

One thing i have learnt dealing with pro 1080 supporters, Esp people that admire Forest and Bird is not to waste my time going into in depth arguements with them as no matter what you say, or evidence you show they never going to change their stance but only shoot you down using crap thats been brain washed into them from the DOC spin doctors. The only thing im going to comment on from the admirer of FEd Farmers and F&B concerning my earlier statement is it may well be unproven on here, but its certainly not un proven. Theres plenty of evidence out there, but like i said, you not going to believe anything that goes against your opinion so not wasting my time.
The difference with DOC and F&B etc thou is that its proven that the so called facts and figures they constantly bleat out concerning the 1080 industry is either B/S, Pulled out of thin air or they really have no idea.
They have mis lead, deceived , told lies and hid and suppressed the truth for years to the public and thats the facts.
So whose likely talking Bs and clap trap? Not the people against wipe spread posion drops thats for sure in the most part compared to the spin doctor crap that DOc and others bleat out

243 I like you last two paragraphs, it's hard to believe people's naivety!

Originally Posted by Maca49

243 I like you last two paragraphs, it's hard to believe people's naivety!

Unfortunately it is very easy to brainwash a nation with propaganda.
Fortunatly tho we live in a country where we can still disagree with it while in many others you would be in big do do for suggesting the big man has a silly haircut.

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Originally Posted by deer243

One thing i have learnt dealing with pro 1080 supporters, Esp people that admire Forest and Bird is not to waste my time going into in depth arguements with them as no matter what you say, or evidence you show they never going to change their stance but only shoot you down using crap thats been brain washed into them from the DOC spin doctors. The only thing im going to comment on from the admirer of FEd Farmers and F&B concerning my earlier statement is it may well be unproven on here, but its certainly not un proven. Theres plenty of evidence out there, but like i said, you not going to believe anything that goes against your opinion so not wasting my time.
The difference with DOC and F&B etc thou is that its proven that the so called facts and figures they constantly bleat out concerning the 1080 industry is either B/S, Pulled out of thin air or they really have no idea.
They have mis lead, deceived , told lies and hid and suppressed the truth for years to the public and thats the facts.
So whose likely talking Bs and clap trap? Not the people against wipe spread posion drops thats for sure in the most part compared to the spin doctor crap that DOc and others bleat out

Oh the irony... Lay of the green stuff cuz...

Originally Posted by ethos

yet nothing in what mr 243 (who you are replying to) said was actually unproven.
Undoubtedly you admire fed farmers, its very obvious. Im pretty sure this topic qualifies as politics and those who want to further restate their hard wired positions may go elsewhere? Anyone with an open mind can see who is and who isnt buying the bullshit.

The onus is on him to prove his claims, he's the one making them, as of yet he hasn't provided a shred of evidence or even logic in his argument. His argument requires a huge amount of assumptions.

This isn't politics.

Originally Posted by deer243

One thing i have learnt dealing with pro 1080 supporters, Esp people that admire Forest and Bird is not to waste my time going into in depth arguements with them as no matter what you say, or evidence you show they never going to change their stance but only shoot you down using crap thats been brain washed into them from the DOC spin doctors. The only thing im going to comment on from the admirer of FEd Farmers and F&B concerning my earlier statement is it may well be unproven on here, but its certainly not un proven. Theres plenty of evidence out there, but like i said, you not going to believe anything that goes against your opinion so not wasting my time.
The difference with DOC and F&B etc thou is that its proven that the so called facts and figures they constantly bleat out concerning the 1080 industry is either B/S, Pulled out of thin air or they really have no idea.
They have mis lead, deceived , told lies and hid and suppressed the truth for years to the public and thats the facts.
So whose likely talking Bs and clap trap? Not the people against wipe spread posion drops thats for sure in the most part compared to the spin doctor crap that DOc and others bleat out

I'm betting you don't go into depth because you don't have the ability to, your arguments don't stand up to simple challenges. If there's plenty of credible evidence out there then why aren't you putting it up?

I think you suffer from a serious case of conformation bias. You really need to stop using the word 'fact' or 'facts' when you can't back it up, just because you believe it's fact doesn't make it so. If you're going to accuse F&B, DOC, the Government etc of corruption, lying, suppressing truth etc then you better be able to back it up because logic isn't ruling in your favour.

You're argument requires a lot of assumptions:
-1080 does more harm than good.
-The Government is corrupt.
-DOC is corrupt
-F&B is corrupt
-All peer reviewed studies re the use of 1080 have been conducted by corrupted scientists and reviewed by more corrupt scientists.
-All of the above people would risk their careers and livelihood to support 1080 when even a bunch of hunters can clearly see it does more harm than good.
-1080 industry is worth billions upon billions of dollars to fund the corruption.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. To say that 1080 works isn't an extraordinary claim, but there is still an extraordinary amount of evidence to back it up.

It's not perfect, far from it, but it's the best we've got.

The above people risk their careers and livelihood to stand 'against' 1080. Scientists have got gag orders on them...'go against the grain and see u'...no job amongst the govt scientific community again. If you think it's the 'best' option ...you're dreaming...speaking from first hand experience here...


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Originally Posted by ethos

yet nothing in what mr 243 (who you are replying to) said was actually unproven.
Undoubtedly you admire fed farmers, its very obvious. Im pretty sure this topic qualifies as politics and those who want to further restate their hard wired positions may go elsewhere? Anyone with an open mind can see who is and who isnt buying the bullshit.

For a professional person, your lack of objectivity sometimes surprises me.

Yes, I have been a member of FFNZ for 45 years. I was also the contracted National Project Manager who led their restructure circa 1998. I do not support FFNZ on the basis of their politics, in fact often times I think that they are way off the page and incorrect. You might recall that FFNZ worked very hard to discredit global warming; I thought that was plain dumb in the face of the evidence.

Why I admire FFNZ is because they achieve significant gains for their members through being organised and in the main backing up what they say with great research. I admire them as an effective lobbying organisation that has got their shit together. The same for F&B. Admiring their effectiveness should not make me an enemy of the state. I wish that hunters' could lobby as effectively.

I'm open minded and can be convinced of anything, but it needs to be through a rational argument based on research or facts that can be relied on. I am not pro 1080. I am not pro government. I am pro where the best outcomes come from with the least down side.

Mr deer243, I think that your approach to advocacy represents the worst of the worst. I can't agree or disagree with you really, because your rhetoric lacks any coherent substance.

Originally Posted by Tahr

For a professional person, your lack of objectivity sometimes surprises me.

Yes, I have been a member of FFNZ for 45 years. I was also the contracted National Project Manager who led their restructure circa 1998. I do not support FFNZ on the basis of their politics, in fact often times I think that they are way off the page and incorrect. You might recall that FFNZ worked very hard to discredit global warming; I thought that was plain dumb in the face of the evidence.

Why I admire FFNZ is because they achieve significant gains for their members through being organised and in the main backing up what they say with great research. I admire them as an effective lobbying organisation that has got their shit together. The same for F&B. Admiring their effectiveness should not make me an enemy of the state. I wish that hunters' could lobby as effectively.

I'm open minded and can be convinced of anything, but it needs to be through a rational argument based on research or facts that can be relied on. I am not pro 1080. I am not pro government. I am pro where the best outcomes come from with the least down side.

Mr deer243, I think that your approach to advocacy represents the worst of the worst. I can't agree or disagree with you really, because your rhetoric lacks any coherent substance.

Your opinion on M Barry and the current government are well known, hence your hard wired postion here. How else does anyone with an actual brain otherwise agree that eradicating rats stoats and possums is an achievable aim in the next 30-40 years? Its political spin, not based in reality.
Ospri was caught making untrue statements, DoC does so at will (tararua deer numbers, "recreational" AATH? etc etc etc), 243 is quite justified in what he is saying. Its a typical political tactic to discredit any questioning as implying a conspiracy and its boring and blinkered.
Perhaps iti s your inability to actually recognise subjective thought that has prevented you becoming a professional -like myself as you noted.

My opinion on Maggie Barry is this; I always liked the way she looked at me when she did the garden show on TV. I think that she fancied me. Otherwise, I just think that she is another politician who doesn't fully understand her portfolio and that her close advisors are not much better. Fortunately the policies that she promotes have been built up by knowledgable and qualified people who are probably not that close to her. These are people who you likely despise called the "bureaucrats".

I was a former National Party electorate chairman. Last election I voted for Labour.

I'm a member of the Lower NI Red Deer foundation, and a donator. We currently have a court action against DOC filed. Have you donated?

I have never said that with the current knowledge and methodology the eradication of pests is achievable. In any time frame. I have said that it is a laudable vision that will take R&D funding and new and different methodologies to realise the vision. I live for the day that 1080 is no longer in our armoury.

In regards to professionalism, you are guessing, and I think that you might be somewhat surprised.

More likely bored. As ever these debates become semantic.
The bastards have to be kept honest unfortunately and that doesnt happen by believing the spin and bullshit.

Sit tight boys and girls. There is some very good info to be released shortly.
In the meantime pay attention to certain Tasmanian foxes and the people associated both there and here.

Tahr, me old mate, I was offering the big white hanky to you and I was going to play the violin. An eventual farewell dirge to the green rain and the bureaucracies that feed off it.