Thread: Half cock or safety

Half cock is an outdated generational hand me down, just like yards.

Originally Posted by Makros

No it's not. After firing, when you open the bolt that action is compressing the firing pin spring and cocking the firing pin. Cock on closing is like a Lee Enfield type action.

yes AND no..... because the striker is not in the open groove untill handle is rotated..so yes spring is in the same position as when ready to fire..but unless sear is enguaged it will slide down the "ramp' as bolt handle is rotated...its not cocked..as such until it is held by sear

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

yes AND no..... because the striker is not in the open groove untill handle is rotated..so yes spring is in the same position as when ready to fire..but unless sear is enguaged it will slide down the "ramp' as bolt handle is rotated...its not cocked..as such until it is held by sear

You misunderstand the meaning of cocked. The firing pin is cocked no matter whether it is retained by the sear or not. The M70 and most of our modern rifles are based off the Gewehr M98 a "cock on opening" action.

Half cock for me and only close on firing. One thing I notice on many US hunting vids is how regular it is for hunters to cock their rifles, apply the safety, sling the rifle over their shoulders and go hunting for the day. Often in some pretty gnarly country, like mountainous mule deer country. It always makes me feel a bit squeamish!

As an aside.... When I was at primary school (pre 1976) we were shown an old black and white firearm safety film. One of the clips was someone firing a rifle at a 20 litre clear plastic bucket of water and watching it explode in slow motion. It really highlighted to me the dangers of a firearm. It still sticks in my brain; so it must've made a helluva impact on me as a youngster. Can't really imagine that happening in schools today...

Originally Posted by Makros

No it's not. After firing, when you lift the bolt handle that action is compressing the firing pin spring and cocking the firing pin. Cock on closing is like a Lee Enfield type action.

Okay so just been to the gun safe and had a little play and I concede you are correct.

I didn't necessarily wanted a debate on the issue just curious as to what the consensus is, might have been easier to ask which is better, Ford or Holden.

Originally Posted by Makros

No it's not. After firing, when you lift the bolt handle that action is compressing the firing pin spring and cocking the firing pin. Cock on closing is like a Lee Enfield type action.

Maybe rephrase your statement once you will have put your hands on a Winchester 70.
The m70 is kind of 2/3 cock on opening and 1/3 cock on closing.( or 3/4-1/4) So 7mm tragic is not completely wrong and your not completely right either.

Originally Posted by 7mm tragic

Okay so just been to the gun safe and had a little play and I concede you are correct.

I didn't necessarily wanted a debate on the issue just curious as to what the consensus is, might have been easier to ask which is better, Ford or Holden.

Don't worry about it won't be the first or the last soon to be multi page thread on half-cock. The continued theme to me is it's widely misunderstood and many are using are really unstable position on their rifle.

Try the half cock position on your M70 and give the trigger a good old squeeze. See what happens, I can't tell you as I've owned one M70 and handled several others and some release the sear, some don't. Seems to be solely down to the tolerances in the individual rifle.

Originally Posted by Friwi

Maybe rephrase your statement once you will have put your hands on a Winchester 70.
The m70 is kind of 2/3 cock on opening and 1/3 cock on closing.( or 3/4-1/4) So 7mm tragic is not completely wrong and your not completely right either.

I have owned a M70 it's no different than any other cock on opening rifle.

Originally Posted by Makros

You misunderstand the meaning of cocked. The firing pin is cocked no matter whether it is retained by the sear or not. The M70 and most of our modern rifles are based off the Gewehr M98 a "cock on opening" action.

nope I do not...a hammer gun is cocked when the hammer is pulled completely back and held by the sear...it is on half cock when it is not all the way back,it sits in a position where it cant touch fireing pin and needs to go back before going forward
on a SMLE the striker stays forward in the bolt untill bolt is nearly forward,the sear enguages the striker and as bolt pushed forwards and then locked down the sriker stays put..cocked ready to fly forward when sear disinguaged/trigger pulled
on modern bolt the spring does indeed get get stretched when bolt handle is lifted..but until sear is enguaged its not cocked...OR you could argue its cocked with bolt removed from rifle as the spring is in the same position

so..the HAMMER/striker is in a position that it is HELD by sear in a strike ready position in order to be "cocked"

if you put a brick on your toe..its down..it you lift it 12" up in air...its ready to drop....... if your leg is against brick and at 45 degree angle and you let go the brick will slide down leg...sort of like a semi open bolt
whatever you decide to do..muzzle control is the key to being safe....dont point it anywhere that it will be a problem if it somehow went off.

Originally Posted by 7mm tragic

Okay so just been to the gun safe and had a little play and I concede you are correct.

I didn't necessarily wanted a debate on the issue just curious as to what the consensus is, might have been easier to ask which is better, Ford or Holden.

today Greg Murphy was speaker at work do..in his garage is a 1600 sport escort......

Originally Posted by Makros

Don't worry about it won't be the first or the last soon to be multi page thread on half-cock. The continued theme to me is it's widely misunderstood and many are using are really unstable position on their rifle.

Try the half cock position on your M70 and give the trigger a good old squeeze. See what happens, I can't tell you as I've owned one M70 and handled several others and some release the sear, some don't. Seems to be solely down to the tolerances in the individual rifle.

and also just where the bolt is sitting when you do it.

Originally Posted by Makros

Don't worry about it won't be the first or the last soon to be multi page thread on half-cock. The continued theme to me is it's widely misunderstood and many are using are really unstable position on their rifle.

Try the half cock position on your M70 and give the trigger a good old squeeze. See what happens, I can't tell you as I've owned one M70 and handled several others and some release the sear, some don't. Seems to be solely down to the tolerances in the individual rifle.

Okay, just tried that, finger hurts, firing pin didn't release.

It's occurred to me that these are useful interactions as none us know everything and anything we do know was either learnt through hard earnt experience or by someone teaching us.

Mickey sorry you're incorrect but I do admit we are arguing semantics around the definition of cocked. You are referring to a hammer gun being held in the half cock position by the sear.
A bolt out of a rifle has a cocked firing pin in it (unless you de-cock it of course). If inserted into the action and closed, without depressing the trigger, it will be held in the cocked position by the sear. The sear is not needed to be "cocked" it just functions to hold it in that position until you fire.

I think the 1/2 cock was a "thing" when every man and his dog used old milsurp 303's which cock I believe on closing.

Your primary safety is your trigger finger and muzzle direction awareness assuming you only load the chamber when you expect rifle to be immediately ready to go "bang" which is not when you are walking behind your mate for example.

The only reason why you may choose NOT to trust your modern rifle/modern safety is if you or someone else has tutu'ed with the trigger to make it "better"

Originally Posted by rockland

Safety with all guns, except lever action where I leave hammer down while hunting.

Not really true with a BLR as the hammer is not lowered onto the firing pin but held 5mm or so above. If you drag the hammer back and let it go before it’s fully cocked/engaged it will fall back to that 5mm above position.
If you have you pull the trigger at the same time it will strike the firing pin. Don’t know if this would fire the round as I’ve never had the nerve to test if.
But the above is just to say that not all firearms are made the same