Thread: Hunter shot in Kaimai Range near Te Aroha

While I admire you're conviction to 110% positive id, I believe the human brain can see things that aren't there, or viceversa. Never been in the situation so can't really comment.

Just wondering if that pivot span was identified 100% when it got drilled

1. Treat every rearm as loaded
2. Always point rearms in a safe direction
3. Load a rearm only when ready to re
4. Identify your target beyond all doubt
5. Check your ring zone
6. Store rearms and ammunition safely
7. Avoid alcohol or drugs when handling rearms


8.Attitude and mindset



I don’t have an issue with the term,..,Attitude/mindset,the ‘term”
by R93,encompasses many issues without getting too technical and in-depth as to how we perceive,and analyze information,based on a present situation.Ones background wil play a huge part in ones decision making.

There are many here loaded with hunting and shooting backgrounds,some not so.

This discussion is at least trying to address/discuss a problem,and open a few eyes and minds,about...Attitudes and mindsets when hunting,....it can only be good

Originally Posted by stretch

Although 64% of firearms incidents [not necessarily fatalities] while hunting large game ARE due to misidentification, perhaps we should wait a bit before analysing it. Nothing has come out about this fatality to suggest it's a case of target misidentification. It may have been self-inflicted during a trip or a fall.



If you ARE indeed referring to target misidentification, records have been kept since 1979, and 26 of the 39 years since then have had a fatality attributed to target misidentification. So there have been 13 years where there were none.




No. If there was no intent to kill a person, then it's manslaughter.




Yeah, nah. Sorry, I'm going to go there. IF this was a case of target misidentification, then it CAN happen to anyone. Humans are fallible, and will always make mistakes. You can follow the 7 basic rules and still fuck it up. In most cases of misidentification of the target, the shooter was adamant they were shooting at an animal. Confirmation Bias is a real thing where your brain tricks itself into seeing what it is expecting to see. It happens to pilots and has explained various plane crashes, and it happens to hunters who are searching the bush for a deer. They are thinking "is that a deer" and looking for things that reinforce that view, rather than asking " is it a person" and looking for evidence of that.

We ask ourselves the wrong questions in the heat of the moment and it sends us to the wrong conclusion.

There are no such things as accidents, so instead of pointing the finger at the shooter and saying "they fucked up. They didn't follow the rules", we need to find out HOW and WHY they messed up and got it so wrong. That way we can indentify the what went wrong and develop techniques to reduce the number of times it occurs.

There is a whole subject on this, called Human Factors - a study on how and why humans make mistakes and how they contribute to accidents. This is not unique to hunting, as it happens across industries. Aviation, Maritime shipping, Oil & Gas, Medicine, etc.

Yes, the shooter is to blame, but blame does nothing to prevent this happening again. I'm interested in the nitty gritty of the how and the why, and hopefully learning something from this tragedy. Cognitive biases do not make these mistakes ok, but it helps us understand how and why they happen so we can be aware of our own fallibility and develop techniques to mitigate it.

This is a good time to stop and have a read of Mountain Safety Council's research on hunting accidents and fatalities. https://issuu.com/nzmountainsafetyco...22887/44292171

There is a large difference that you are willfully ignoring in order to make your point, between target mis-identification and target non-identification.

For all we know it was one of those AR15's, which are known to kill groups of people. So it might not be his fault anyway, it might be solely because of a semi-automatic high-powered rifle acting on its' own.

I think the confirmation bias thing is being over reported. It is a solid "excuse" with a theoretical basis.
I think that recklessness plays more part in this. Just take a look at the driving behaviour on our roads. This alone is evidence that some people will not keep basic safety rules because they are f..k..ts.

Originally Posted by A330driver

1. Treat every firearm as loaded
2. Always point firearms in a safe direction
3. Load a firearm only when ready to re
4. Identify your target beyond all doubt
5. Check your firing zone
6. Store firearms and ammunition safely
7. Avoid alcohol or drugs when handling firearms


8.Attitude and mindset



I don’t have an issue with the term,..,Attitude/mindset,the ‘term”
by R93,encompasses many issues without getting too technical and in-depth as to how we perceive,and analyze information,based on a present situation.Ones background wil play a huge part in ones decision making.

There are many here loaded with hunting and shooting backgrounds,some not so.

This discussion is at least trying to address/discuss a problem,and open a few eyes and minds,about...Attitudes and mindsets when hunting,....it can only be good

Does your spell check have something against the letters F I ?

Apologies mate... I tried to change it later and couldn’t edit it..... then we started down.... didn’t have time

Thanks for the reminder and the fix... hopefully I can return the favour cheers

Originally Posted by timattalon

Does your spell check have something against the letters F I ?

Originally Posted by A330driver

1. Treat every rearm as loaded
2. Always point rearms in a safe direction
3. Load a rearm only when ready to re
4. Identify your target beyond all doubt
5. Check your ring zone
6. Store rearms and ammunition safely
7. Avoid alcohol or drugs when handling rearms


8.Attitude and mindset



I don’t have an issue with the term,..,Attitude/mindset,the ‘term”
by R93,encompasses many issues without getting too technical and in-depth as to how we perceive,and analyze information,based on a present situation.Ones background wil play a huge part in ones decision making.

There are many here loaded with hunting and shooting backgrounds,some not so.

This discussion is at least trying to address/discuss a problem,and open a few eyes and minds,about...Attitudes and mindsets when hunting,....it can only be good

Regarding attitude I spose one of the first things is, when a person even fires a shot at a misidentifed target they are wanting to shoot or satisfied with anything. They have no minimum standards and maybe have their own induced stress and mindset of having to be successful.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

As I've always said there's hunters and then there's shooters

Originally Posted by matto1234

Is that a serious question or? The bloke following the dog had a round in the spout and bolt closed so yeah 'oh fuck'

A bit of both, a shot at humour and the seriousness of the situation acknowledged. Nothing personal at all.

Originally Posted by muka88

I stay clear of the Kaimai's during the roar to many people in there, also a lot of people that only hunt once a year out for a easy stag, i think they get impatient bashing through the thick bush and end up not identifying the target properly. there must be some way to use GPS or some kind of tech to let guys know that there is another hunter in close proximity, say 200m, may cost a few bucks but its better than shooting each other, make it compulsory on doc land along with a emergency locator beacon, just an idea

That's my understanding. Too many people in the bush and not enough bush.

Originally Posted by outlander

That's my understanding. Too many people in the bush and not enough bush.

Plenty of bush, just not a lot of easy bush so they get concentrated near road ends and walking tracks. Get 2-3 hours in off the tracks and you'll be a lot safer.

Please excuse my ignorance here but I am keen to get out and bag my first stag was keen to get into the Kaimai's but after this incident, I am very hesitant. i wear orange blaze hat and other gear to make myself visible to other hunters as well and with @Pointers advise i move away from the tracks and will be hunting away from the beaten tracks

What the safest way to get out on to DOC land and bag a Deer?

I have a young family and I cannot take the risk of them ending up without me. or do I need to read between the lines here and stay out of the bush during the Roar, or hunt book a hunt on private land?

Originally Posted by Milan501

Please excuse my ignorance here but I am keen to get out and bag my first stag was keen to get into the Kaimai's but after this incident, I am very hesitant. i wear orange blaze hat and other gear to make myself visible to other hunters as well and with @Pointers advise i move away from the tracks and will be hunting away from the beaten tracks

What the safest way to get out on to DOC land and bag a Deer?

I have a young family and I cannot take the risk of them ending up without me. or do I need to read between the lines here and stay out of the bush during the Roar, or hunt book a hunt on private land?

Be as responsible as you can whilst hunting, you can't control the actions of others.

You take more of a risk driving on the road to your hunt than you actually do hunting.

I don't think there is a real answer to that one its like asking how not to get killed while driving on the road you can do everything right but there's always some fukwit that's to lazy or thinks they are more clever than everyone else