Thread: Hunting in NZ, is it too easy?

Originally Posted by screamO

most NZers can't afford to take there families to the tourism spots in our own land because the costs are geared for the oversees dollar.

sorry, but that is bullshit i have been here 5 years, and seen more of NZ than most kiwis do in their lifetime. it is scary how many of my kiwi friends have not even been down to fiordland etc. all of it extremely cheap, because we stay in national parks, tramp, camp, fish and do road trips. don't know what "tourism spots" you refer to.

maybe if you want to go stay in flash hotels and do all the adventure tourism rides etc...

and back to the idea of costs for locals vs non-locals. is it actually free for locals to hunt in africa, usa, england etc. how much does it cost in real money terms, how many big macs $ for a license/permit compared to non-local ? or are some of you just assuming that because it is free here, it has to be free for locals elsewhere ?

Originally Posted by ebf

yes and no VC. NZ is at the bottom end of the world, it is not cheap getting here. as Ryan has pointed out before, every single tourist that gets here, does spend money in other ways. without tourist $, most of the small south island towns would simply cease to exist. have you seen what Te Anau looks like when the Milford road is closed ?

do we really want to reduce or increase the number of tourists ? how are you going to control access to public land ? will each "foreign" visitor wanting to do do one of the big walks have to pay extra ? how are you going to distinguish a tramper from a hunter or fisherman ? are you going to employ a horde of rangers just to do checking of permits ?

i used to do a lot of travel in Namibia. they significantly raised the national park fees for non-residents (to the point where it was ridiculous - hotel price for a tent site), I simply ended up going somewhere else ... it would be interesting to see how much of NZ's income, especially SI depends of tourism.

it would also be interesting if someone has stats of actual numbers of search-and-rescue for foreigners vs locals. see what the real picture is without the assumption that it is generally some clueless tourist.

and mikee, NZ is unique in that hunting is allowed on public conservation land. that situation does not exist in most of africa (commercial game farms). where you can hunt national parks, the fees are ploughed back into conservation, with such high prices that none of the locals could ever afford it (the extreme other end of what you have here). not sure how it works in mruca...

Well I would like to hunt Pheasants in North Dakita in Mruca. I cannot buy a firearm there as I am an "alien" so I either need to go with a local or engage a guide
Assuming I go with a locale then I need to buy non-resident tags.

See below
Nonresident Licenses and Requirements | North Dakota Game and Fish

Last statement at the end is quite interesting

A Nonresident May Not Hunt Game and Fish Department Lands the First Week of Pheasant Season

Nonresidents may not hunt on lands owned or leased by the North Dakota Game and Fish Department, including state wildlife management areas and Private Lands Open To Sportsmen (PLOTS), for the first week of pheasant season. This restriction applies to all types of hunting, not just pheasants. This restriction does not apply to lands owned or managed by other state agencies that may be open to hunting, such as state school lands, federal lands that may be open to hunting, such as U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service waterfowl production areas, or to private lands not enrolled in the Game and Fish PLOTS program.

For a laugh put "hunting nz" into google images. Aside from being choppered in to shoot Tahr and Chamois I think our public land stags are safe from yanks.

FFS! Some people just don't get it.
It is a fucking free for all here regarding hunting for tourists and it shouldn't be.
End of story.
I want something left for my progeny to enjoy. The way it is going there may not be.

Well Dave, explain it to me.

Do you just want to charge hunting tourists more, or all tourists ? How are you going to distinguish between them. How are you going to enforce it ? How much more do you think is fair compared to let's say a fishing license for locals ?

Can you give me an example of another country that allows free public hunting for residents and charges non-residents ?

Is there really that much pressure because of non-residents. The thing that amazes me about NZ is that once you get further than 1 hour from the car park or road-end, you often spend an entire day without seeing another person (local or foreigner).

yeh R93 i think you've hit it. i was gonna say, i think you guys are missing the point.

I'm not looking for answers to the problem, the intention of the post was to find out if "we" think there is or is going to be a problem with non resident overcrowding in the backcountry- possibly affecting our historical options. I don't necessarily think paying is the answer, but may be part of it.

I think the questions being asked and a potential problem being identified is important first.


in reference to some of the other points raised.
I accept that in a lot of countries you have to pay- or ballot- or stick to seasons for hunting.
I accept that if I'm in other countries i should "do as the Romans do " etc.
I accept that when i visit another country i am the visitor, and i am the "alien" entity, and that i should try to assimilate myself with that countries ways/laws etc.

Is it not bad enough already that there seem to be more spotlighting deaths? Poaching in the media-prosecutions? (correct me if I'm wrong).
In say ten years i imagine there may be a lot more freedom hunters, following in the footsteps of Remi Warren and others, who may very well be good keen hunters, bought up on public land fair chase hunting just like us.Will it be the norm in twenty years to turn up to a favorite road end and run into more Americans than Kiwis here for 4 weeks?(btw i like Remi Warren- it appears he is a cool guy, and very much like us Kiwis with Hunting.)

Sorry EBF, but you are out of your depth regarding hunting regulations here and in other countries if you can't answer your own question.

Please find me another country where you and I can just rock up and go for a hunt ourselves before asking how it can be changed here.

I'm not asking for things to change, you guys are ?!?

Do you honestly believe that hunting for your progeny is more under threat from foreign hunters than from local heli operators ?

Is the area you are concerned about more to do with trophy animals ?

Some places in NZ are already becoming like Everest. I can walk 2 hours into some areas and still find muesli bar wraps etc just left where they fall. We suck as far as clean is concerned and its getting worse.

$5.00 rebate on all that type of thing would fix that nelpop

Originally Posted by Ryan

OK. I understand.



OK, but if they went into the sticks unguided, should they pay a premium? After all they're really not much more than a hiker with a rifle?

Don't forget that we are not the only country of hunters in the world a lot of overseas hunters are highly skilled and have been hunting for generations.
It has not reached a point yet where its really affecting us or our rights but it will get there.
History shows what happens when you let people in for free that they take advantage.
Ask the Native people of colonised country's our own included.

I don't think overseas hunters are too much of a concern. They are either with guides who should have the appropriate concessions or they hunt with a local. They bring money and subsequently contribute to our GDP.
My main concern is with high density hunting areas such as Clements Rd. I believe we should look at ballot systems in high density public land areas in the interests of safety and game management. This is coming from someone who does enjoy hunting in Clements Rd whenever I feel like it.

@kiwiaviator, the only "foreigners" you'll be targeting with that ballot would be aucklanders

in principle, I have no problem with tourists paying a reasonable extra levy for things such as licenses... 10-15% seems fair. if something is free, then obviously 15% of zero is zero.

For the ballots, maybe say something like only 25% of spots available for non-residents. I think you still want to attract overseas visitors as a marketing exercise. make the ballot system ABSOLUTELY transparent, the problem (based on another thread on here) seems to be more of a poorly run ballot system with some guys getting the same block year after year type of thing. ensure that people can only enter once, have a stand-down period for winners etc.

Originally Posted by R93

Depends what rules are put in place.
If every loopy hunter had to hire a guide by law, like I believe they should, there would be no problem.

Yes and do whatever they want on private land....not land, the upkeep of which and the administration of, is paid for out off my/our taxes.

As I said in your previous thread on ballots, and offshore hunters entering them......I don't get reciprocal rights on foreign public lands.

B

It's beyond me that DOC have allowed Heli hunters unfettered access into wilderness areas with there overseas clients & locals aren't allowed heli access into them, I mean for FFS.

They also get a free whack at "ALL" of our ballots & keen local hunters are missing out, Our tax's pay for administrating it, the upkeep on huts etc I don't think it's too much to ask that overseas hunters have to buy tags or pay to get hunting licence, to contribute.

we do it with fishing licences