Thread: Hunting in NZ, is it too easy?

Originally Posted by Ryan

Are they really treated as a pest?

I believe so. Ask DOC.

Originally Posted by Ryan

Are they really treated as a pest?

Ryan they kill them with mass drops of 1080 poison that's not how you handle a resource.

Hire a guide? Sure - I don't disagree with that. Provides more people with jobs, people with knowledge of the terrain, fauna and flora - need more people who know their land. Win/Win.

It's not just hunting, trout fishing as well. We bumped into some foreign fly fisherman up a river, while we were chatting to them a chopper turned up & dropped some heli-fisherman in, shit they got grumpy about it, "bloody heli fisherman taking all the good spots" quite ironic I thought...lol

i find it very ironic and a bit sad that this type of attitude exists amongst a fair amount of the kiwi population.

as a nation that is famous for enjoying the benefits and rewards of extensive travel and work in other parts of the world, why does this attitude still exist ?

how many kiwis live, work, and play all over the world ?

globalisation is a reality - unfortunately, some people only want it to be a one-way street...

exactly ebf, its a global market and we are giving it away for free.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

exactly ebf, its a global market and we are giving it away for free.

I think you mean "throwing it away"

i find it very ironic and a bit sad that this type of attitude exists amongst a fair amount of the kiwi population.

as a nation that is famous for enjoying the benefits and rewards of extensive travel and work in other parts of the world, why does this attitude still exist ?

how many kiwis live, work, and play all over the world ?

globalisation is a reality - unfortunately, some people only want it to be a one-way street...

Lots of us have (or still do) but we still can't hunt / fish in these "other countries "for free or just the cost of a licence. Nor would they rescue us "for free" if i were required.

I have no problem with overseas hunters or fisherman coming over here. Hell I have taken my guests hunting and fishing, they were all surprised to find they could "just buy a licence" and off they could go"

Can a tourist (with out paying a mandatory guide) just rock up in UK or US get a licence and go trout fishing..................um no, game-bird hunting in the US...................um no, big game hunting in the US........................um no, big game hunting in Africa............um no BUT hunting Tahr in NZ Alps with no experience (foolish but entirely possible)....................hell yes

But hey I also think PLBs should be Mandatory to carry in all NP's just to cut down the cost of actually "finding" you when you are lost or broken as it would mean more $$ available for other "hunts for other people"

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

exactly ebf, its a global market and we are giving it away for free.

yes and no VC. NZ is at the bottom end of the world, it is not cheap getting here. as Ryan has pointed out before, every single tourist that gets here, does spend money in other ways. without tourist $, most of the small south island towns would simply cease to exist. have you seen what Te Anau looks like when the Milford road is closed ?

do we really want to reduce or increase the number of tourists ? how are you going to control access to public land ? will each "foreign" visitor wanting to do do one of the big walks have to pay extra ? how are you going to distinguish a tramper from a hunter or fisherman ? are you going to employ a horde of rangers just to do checking of permits ?

i used to do a lot of travel in Namibia. they significantly raised the national park fees for non-residents (to the point where it was ridiculous - hotel price for a tent site), I simply ended up going somewhere else ... it would be interesting to see how much of NZ's income, especially SI depends of tourism.

it would also be interesting if someone has stats of actual numbers of search-and-rescue for foreigners vs locals. see what the real picture is without the assumption that it is generally some clueless tourist.

and mikee, NZ is unique in that hunting is allowed on public conservation land. that situation does not exist in most of africa (commercial game farms). where you can hunt national parks, the fees are ploughed back into conservation, with such high prices that none of the locals could ever afford it (the extreme other end of what you have here). not sure how it works in mruca...

Originally Posted by ebf

yes and no VC. NZ is at the bottom end of the world, it is not cheap getting here. as Ryan has pointed out before, every single tourist that gets here, does spend money in other ways. without tourist $, most of the small south island towns would simply cease to exist. have you seen what Te Anau looks like when the Milford road is closed ?

do we really want to reduce or increase the number of tourists ? how are you going to control access to public land ? will each "foreign" visitor wanting to do do one of the big walks have to pay extra ? how are you going to distinguish a tramper from a hunter or fisherman ? are you going to employ a horde of rangers just to do checking of permits ?

i used to do a lot of travel in Namibia. they significantly raised the national park fees for non-residents (to the point where it was ridiculous - hotel price for a tent site), I simply ended up going somewhere else ... it would be interesting to see how much of NZ's income, especially SI depends of tourism.

it would also be interesting if someone has stats of actual numbers of search-and-rescue for foreigners vs locals. see what the real picture is without the assumption that it is generally some clueless tourist.

and mikee, NZ is unique in that hunting is allowed on public conservation land. that situation does not exist in most of africa (commercial game farms). where you can hunt national parks, the fees are ploughed back into conservation, with such high prices that none of the locals could ever afford it (the extreme other end of what you have here). not sure how it works in mruca...

Well I would like to hunt Pheasants in North Dakita in Mruca. I cannot buy a firearm there as I am an "alien" so I either need to go with a local or engage a guide
Assuming I go with a locale then I need to buy non-resident tags.

See below
Nonresident Licenses and Requirements | North Dakota Game and Fish

Last statement at the end is quite interesting

A Nonresident May Not Hunt Game and Fish Department Lands the First Week of Pheasant Season

Nonresidents may not hunt on lands owned or leased by the North Dakota Game and Fish Department, including state wildlife management areas and Private Lands Open To Sportsmen (PLOTS), for the first week of pheasant season. This restriction applies to all types of hunting, not just pheasants. This restriction does not apply to lands owned or managed by other state agencies that may be open to hunting, such as state school lands, federal lands that may be open to hunting, such as U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service waterfowl production areas, or to private lands not enrolled in the Game and Fish PLOTS program.

NZ is a tourism destination which is great for NZ. I agree that they should pay for the right to hunt / Fish, we all do through our taxes. But then what would happen long term? most NZers can't afford to take there families to the tourism spots in our own land because the costs are geared for the oversees dollar. The govt will work out there's money to be made and then who knows what might happen to our so called free hunting.
How many of us have seen all off our beautiful country? Most people I know have seen more of the world than there own country, they are happy to pay the money to do all the things overseas and then come back and complain about the cost of seeing the sights in NZ.
Not sure what I'm trying to say but what really pisses me off is seeing them on a fishing charter and taking / catching a heap of fish which you know they aren't going to eat or send home.

Originally Posted by screamO

most NZers can't afford to take there families to the tourism spots in our own land because the costs are geared for the oversees dollar.

sorry, but that is bullshit i have been here 5 years, and seen more of NZ than most kiwis do in their lifetime. it is scary how many of my kiwi friends have not even been down to fiordland etc. all of it extremely cheap, because we stay in national parks, tramp, camp, fish and do road trips. don't know what "tourism spots" you refer to.

maybe if you want to go stay in flash hotels and do all the adventure tourism rides etc...

and back to the idea of costs for locals vs non-locals. is it actually free for locals to hunt in africa, usa, england etc. how much does it cost in real money terms, how many big macs $ for a license/permit compared to non-local ? or are some of you just assuming that because it is free here, it has to be free for locals elsewhere ?

For a laugh put "hunting nz" into google images. Aside from being choppered in to shoot Tahr and Chamois I think our public land stags are safe from yanks.

FFS! Some people just don't get it.
It is a fucking free for all here regarding hunting for tourists and it shouldn't be.
End of story.
I want something left for my progeny to enjoy. The way it is going there may not be.

Well Dave, explain it to me.

Do you just want to charge hunting tourists more, or all tourists ? How are you going to distinguish between them. How are you going to enforce it ? How much more do you think is fair compared to let's say a fishing license for locals ?

Can you give me an example of another country that allows free public hunting for residents and charges non-residents ?

Is there really that much pressure because of non-residents. The thing that amazes me about NZ is that once you get further than 1 hour from the car park or road-end, you often spend an entire day without seeing another person (local or foreigner).

yeh R93 i think you've hit it. i was gonna say, i think you guys are missing the point.

I'm not looking for answers to the problem, the intention of the post was to find out if "we" think there is or is going to be a problem with non resident overcrowding in the backcountry- possibly affecting our historical options. I don't necessarily think paying is the answer, but may be part of it.

I think the questions being asked and a potential problem being identified is important first.


in reference to some of the other points raised.
I accept that in a lot of countries you have to pay- or ballot- or stick to seasons for hunting.
I accept that if I'm in other countries i should "do as the Romans do " etc.
I accept that when i visit another country i am the visitor, and i am the "alien" entity, and that i should try to assimilate myself with that countries ways/laws etc.

Is it not bad enough already that there seem to be more spotlighting deaths? Poaching in the media-prosecutions? (correct me if I'm wrong).
In say ten years i imagine there may be a lot more freedom hunters, following in the footsteps of Remi Warren and others, who may very well be good keen hunters, bought up on public land fair chase hunting just like us.Will it be the norm in twenty years to turn up to a favorite road end and run into more Americans than Kiwis here for 4 weeks?(btw i like Remi Warren- it appears he is a cool guy, and very much like us Kiwis with Hunting.)