Thread: Hunting in NZ, is it too easy?

So what happens to all the hut fees and great walk fees that are paid by all users, Kiwi and foreign alike?

Goes into the poison fund probably

Originally Posted by ebf

@kiwiaviator, the only "foreigners" you'll be targeting with that ballot would be aucklanders

in principle, I have no problem with tourists paying a reasonable extra levy for things such as licenses... 10-15% seems fair. if something is free, then obviously 15% of zero is zero.

For the ballots, maybe say something like only 25% of spots available for non-residents. I think you still want to attract overseas visitors as a marketing exercise. make the ballot system ABSOLUTELY transparent, the problem (based on another thread on here) seems to be more of a poorly run ballot system with some guys getting the same block year after year type of thing. ensure that people can only enter once, have a stand-down period for winners etc.

Why the hell should somebody have 25% claim on our hunting rights and not be a resident?
Its easy to control same as South Africa and other countries your need proof of payment and letter of invite from professional hunting guide to be able to bring your gun and ammo in.
Attract overseas hunters to our public land that in some areas we are already limited and controlled for access to bring in money.
Selling ourselves short I think.
As for a ballot that was suggested by somebody for high traffic areas like Clements Road .
It didn't always have such large number of people and now you want to limit the people who have been hunting there for years because the other half of you cant think outside the square and go somewhere else .
Newsflash there are so many other good places in central Nth Island to camp and hunt that are not plastered all over the local hunting mags and forums you just have to have a look a little bit further away than 30 mins from MacDonald's.

I have never hunted there because of the high crowd factor.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Not a very good argument sorry.
I cannot think of a country where colonisation has not been benificial to the native people in the long term.

Tell that to the Incas

Originally Posted by Zamkiwi

Why the hell should somebody have 25% claim on our hunting rights and not be a resident?.

Marketing opportunity for NZ tourism, bring in international hunting shows and visitors to showcase NZ as a destination. Much as folks on here seem to hate tourists, the do bring in a fair chunk of money into the economy. If the dairy industry has a wobble (seen the farm gate prices recently ?), what do you think the next big earner for NZ is ?

It's free you us, why should it not be free for someone else ? Or maybe you want to go down the slippery slope of tourists having to pay.... wonder how long it takes for some rocket scientist bureaucrat to realize that charging locals is actually an easier option for a quick buck. Bet that would go down as well amongst most locals as having to pay hut fees

Originally Posted by Zamkiwi

Its easy to control same as South Africa and other countries your need proof of payment and letter of invite from professional hunting guide to be able to bring your gun and ammo in.

Maybe because this is a completely different situation ?

In South Africa locals to not hunt for free (most guys I know can barely afford to go hunt once or twice a year). Mammals are not considered introduced pests. Other than National Parks (where international level trophy fees apply - millionaire Americans) hunting is done on commercial game farms. You pay for access, you pay per animal, you pay for guides...

I think trying to compare NZ to Overseas is very difficult.
For example my wife and I visited Denmark last year.
Their hunting for deer from what I could gather was very much like our bird shooting a season of about 3 months.
Didnt appear to be too many restrictions on visitors.
The majority of the country is very developed.
So it wouldn't work here.
For some of us their scenario would be ok.
But be very careful of getting what you wish for most legislation/rules in society are the shotgun approach and apply to all.

Remember to have a coffee and read the original post twice.
I have been led to believe that it was Queen Victoria who gave us the queens chain so that we would all have fair and reasonable access to our waterways. I believe that our fore fathers, (and mothers) introduced game animals to public lands so we would all have fair and reasonable access to hunting. As a born and bred kiwi, I and all my family enjoy, and regard as our birth rite, free, fair and reasonable access to our waterways and public lands to fish and hunt. We pay reasonable licence fees to take some fish and birds. This fee is used to manage the resource. In theory part of our taxes are used to maintain huts roads etc on public (our) land. I suppose in theory our taxes pay for the management or mismanagement of our game animals. I am opposed to any situation whereby our free and reasonable right to access our waterways and public lands, and hunt our game animals and fish and birds is restricted. I am opposed to any management strategy that restricts me having reasonable success when hunting/fishing. In conjunction with reasonable conservation strategies. So, I am opposed to non kiwi's having the privilege of free unrestricted access to my birth rite. They should pay. There could be a case for me being able to invite my friends to hunt with me as my guest. This is why I am comfortable with the game parks. (It's not hunting anyway). So let the foreigners do it and its a good lucrative industry for NZ. But breed your own animals. Keep your thieving hands of ours.

I am joining the conversation and a non-Kiwi who is highly interested to visit NZ for a number of weeks for hunting, fishing (probably deep sea sport fishing, i.e., catch and release) and scuba diving (along with regular touristy things). Honestly, the initial draw was the openness I thought NZ extended to hunters (it appears from this thread that there is a great deal more hostility towards auslaenders than I knew about.)

I would not have an issue with paying a reasonable non-resident license fee but I do not want to be required to have a guide for several reasons. 1) I want to use my hunting skills to locate, stalk and track my game. 2) I don't want to be just taken for a guided "shootfest". 3) In my experience, when guide requirements are implemented there quickly develops a near monopoly on access to land - even to the exclusion of locals.* 4) I want to "be the hiker with a gun" and not have someone yipping in my ear trying to entertain a guest with anecdotal tales. 5) Guides make the cost too excessive for me. One point for those on this thread to consider about a requirement for foreign hunters to use guides, the guides will likely take the hunters to the "best spots" (much like the trout fishing experience) because the guide wants to have happy clients who had a great time and likely provide a nice financial tip at the end.

* That is what has happened in California for the large game. Anyone can get a license and boar tags but there are not many public areas where one can go and hunt boar. The elk tags are provided to Ranchers who, in turn, sell them to the guides for stupid money.

It is my understanding that the red deer is seen by DOC as a pest. See: Deer: Animal Pests

https://geog397.wiki.otago.ac.nz/ind...in_New_Zealand

I don't have enough information to be able to evaluate the numbers of foreign hunters come to NZ, how many animals they kill, and if there has been an overall impact on the quality and quantity of animals. No one on this thread has provided such empirical data. From what I read on the above sites, recreational hunting is not enough to moderate the population of non-native ungulates in NZ. None-the-less, it is certainly possible that continued unregulated hunting "could" result in overhunting as has happened in many countries. Again, as an outsider without any empirical data I have no idea how far along NZ has gone down that path.

Is there a great deal of animosity towards foreign hunters in NZ?

Scotty

Well I've had a coffee n might need another one to read all the discussions ......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No summitdogracing, you won't find much animosity directed at you. You will generally find us friendly and welcoming. It's not your fault that we manage our affairs poorly. You will hear animosity directed at bureaucrats and politicians who do things we don't want and don't do what we do want.

@summitdogracing ;
I have no real issue with hunters coming to NZ to hunt under their "own steam" provided they are prepared for the conditions and can look after themselves in the conditions. (We have a large number of Tourists here (hunters included ) who totally underestimate our outdoors and end up needing to be found then rescued)

I suspect most NZ hunters might feel similar

I actually enjoy taking people fishing (and this would stretch to hunting if I had any hunting skills to speak of ) for NO financial gain at all. I like to meet others from other parts of the world who share similar interests.

My issue is that it appears foreign hunters can enter the Ballots for blocks alongside NZ hunters at the same cost and in some cases NZ hunters miss out on the ballots thru shear numbers of the foreign applicants or the way foreigners (an locals ) organis their entry for maximum possible result.

I believe that PREFERENCE should be given to these Blocks being primarilly for Local hunters at the peak times.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Not a very good argument sorry.
I cannot think of a country where colonisation has not been benificial to the native people in the long term.

Come for a look around Africa at the moment where they are selling there soul to Chinese investors and contractors its modern colonisation on a grand scale and now the yanks are hitting the panic button and going for a slice of the pie.
there will be no advantage to the blacks of Africa out of it in the long term as the contractors are not training locals in anything over than manual labour.
The govt are paying them with large tracts of land in the right places.
people take advantage if you allow a easy path its human nature
If we keep on the path of letting foreign hunters have a free range on our ballots for our hunting grounds we will lose out in the end and the locals in those areas are already losing.
No offence to our aussie neighbour's but they are already working out that they can jump on a plane for low cost and hunt our grounds as there's close up.

I think it would be sad to prevent free hunting, to residence. Maybe non residence could buy something akin to a fishing licence for public land other than ballot blocks.

However I do not think that non residence should be aloud to go in ballot blocks free hunting, they should do so via a guided system or invite by resident (could be scamed by non residents I guess)

I do not want to loose my right to hunt, fish, walk freely in any way or form. I consider it a fortunate right to be able to put free lean organic meat on the table, and have reasonable access to country side.

I think that DOC and Government need to rethink the management of game, it is a resource to be looked after not destruction and total eradication of pests.

I also think they need to provide better science and control over poisoning, and also work with industry groups and other stake holders to develop other options for pest eradication like possums, develop stronger markets for the possum by products and ease up on the poisoning of the larger game animals and other native invertebrates. After all these animals are also a resource.

One aspect of this discussion has been the numbers of tourists requiring sar to get them out of trouble.
Here are some numbers, and although a little out of date, they are not likely to have changed dramatically.
Year 06_07
People assisted 1774, of which 300 were tourists. @17%

Year 07_08
2067 assisted. 158 were tourists. 8%

Year 9
08_09
Total assisted 1991 of which 245 were tourists. 12 %

These figures are a cross the board and will include tramping, hunting, boating etc.
I suspect these numbers are lower than most would imagine.

Thanks pengiun, much as i suspected

Bloody ill-equiped, clueless LOCALS