Thread: hunting with subsponic 44 or 45 cals

Originally Posted by Tommy

Don't forget 38special is subsonic too

Good point I'll add to that the question, anyone use this on game? I have been experimenting actually in my 357 lever action. Found at subsonic speed most .357 HP and SP aren't expanding which is to be expected. The 135grain gold dot made for 38 special and 125 grain remington golden sabre seem to be about the best expanding, .55 cal or so at impacts down to about 850fps. That's on water jugs, not sure if this would be much of an idea on pigs.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Only about fifty yards. Didn't have my range finder so it was a fairly lucky shot. It has a pretty dramatic arc once it gets out past fifty yards.
I don't know who did the conversion sorry. I bought it off here. Shot like shit and the projectiles were getting shaved on the way through the suppressor. Dug a couple up and they had been turned into boat tails on the way out. There was less than a mm clearance between the projectile and the hole down the suppressor. Opened it up about half a mm with a drill and and its good now. Not quite as quiet but shoots good.
I anyone has any knackered 303 mags I'd be keen on one or two to make more mags for it.

Sounds like you got yours running well if its plugging rabbits. From what I have researched some of these conversions can be a bit finicky, with the exception of gundoc's here. Checking youtube vids on delisle copies and most of them the bloke is picking at least one case out of the action because extraction failed.
I think these carbines are a grand little idea when they run well and I'm looking to get one myself.

that's a nice rifle. Who did your conversion?

Sixtus, there is a thread here somewhere about subs with lots of useful info. I have a Rossi 44 mag break gun and shoot 300 grn at 1025 fps. It will group to 1 inch with three shots @ 100 meters.
I was siting it in at 100 mtrs but found that it was difficult to get the 'hold under' right at shorter distances - I would miss by shooting over the top.
For me having the gun dead on a 60 metres and the 22 the same is perfect. It is easy to allow a 4 inch holdover at 100 and practice with 22 & subs is directly transferable as the trajectories are the same when both are sited at 60 mtrs.
The subs work but need carful placement - Autonomic Plexus is best, tried a few aiming spots

Originally Posted by sixtus

Good point I'll add to that the question, anyone use this on game? I have been experimenting actually in my 357 lever action. Found at subsonic speed most .357 HP and SP aren't expanding which is to be expected. The 135grain gold dot made for 38 special and 125 grain remington golden sabre seem to be about the best expanding, .55 cal or so at impacts down to about 850fps. That's on water jugs, not sure if this would be much of an idea on pigs.

They're a big fat 22 sub basically. I have head shot a few goats with a rossi single shot. Worked mint ad they kind of milled around.

Chest shots worked well with the cast lead but a couple took a minute ot expire.

Worked well enough for me to be happy using them in a humane point of view.

I use a 357 Rossi Puma on goats. My favourite load is 38sp brass loaded to max +P data behind 158gn cast flat points. Very accurate. Soft recoil. Any goat I can hit with it up to 150m is a dead goat with a placed shot. I tend to favour/restrict myself to under 100m more because of eyes with open sights. Best advice I can give is find a clay bank where you can see a puff of dirt when bullet hits and practice at measured distances. Really learn to judge distance and learn what the rifle/load combination can and can't do before you start blasting away. Know what sight setting to change to at diff distances. These are not flat shooters. Using the same projectiles with a full house 357mag load I watched my adult son nail goats at 180-200 metres on two occasions. One chest shot, one neck. Both required aiming shots. I don't like that because of wounding potential. I dont recommend it especially with open sights unless you really really know your gun/load. Of interest, both goats were off their feet, rolling downhill on impact. Those lead slugs hit real hard even if they have a rainbow trajectory. No finishing was required. I don't use these loads on small game as I shoot for meat. They would be adequate for deer and pig at appropriate ranges. Great bush rifle as light and fast to aim. Have fun, take care of the game, practice like hell.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Sixtus, there is a thread here somewhere about subs with lots of useful info. I have a Rossi 44 mag break gun and shoot 300 grn at 1025 fps. It will group to 1 inch with three shots @ 100 meters.
I was siting it in at 100 mtrs but found that it was difficult to get the 'hold under' right at shorter distances - I would miss by shooting over the top.
For me having the gun dead on a 60 metres and the 22 the same is perfect. It is easy to allow a 4 inch holdover at 100 and practice with 22 & subs is directly transferable as the trajectories are the same when both are sited at 60 mtrs.
The subs work but need carful placement - Autonomic Plexus is best, tried a few aiming spotsAttachment 122344

Great post Moa Hunter. That cast bullet would be unstoppable. I tend to range these velocities similar to 22LR match ammo as well. Whats the autonomic plexus btw. I'd like to see how the self defence hollowpoints in 44 and 45ACP go. Again not rifle style shocking power, but they expand to 70cal+ on ballistic tests. Penetration on big pigs might be the issue? Not sure...

Originally Posted by Jhon

I use a 357 Rossi Puma on goats. My favourite load is 38sp brass loaded to max +P data behind 158gn cast flat points. Very accurate. Soft recoil. Any goat I can hit with it up to 150m is a dead goat with a placed shot. I tend to favour/restrict myself to under 100m more because of eyes with open sights. Best advice I can give is find a clay bank where you can see a puff of dirt when bullet hits and practice at measured distances. Really learn to judge distance and learn what the rifle/load combination can and can't do before you start blasting away. Know what sight setting to change to at diff distances. These are not flat shooters. Using the same projectiles with a full house 357mag load I watched my adult son nail goats at 180-200 metres on two occasions. One chest shot, one neck. Both required aiming shots. I don't like that because of wounding potential. I dont recommend it especially with open sights unless you really really know your gun/load. Of interest, both goats were off their feet, rolling downhill on impact. Those lead slugs hit real hard even if they have a rainbow trajectory. No finishing was required. I don't use these loads on small game as I shoot for meat. They would be adequate for deer and pig at appropriate ranges. Great bush rifle as light and fast to aim. Have fun, take care of the game, practice like hell.

Thanks so is that 38+P load in the carbine still subsonic. I'm guessing your are running a bit over if you are plugging things at 150m or do you run a range finder. Its a foot or two holdover at that range for subsonic velocities.

Still under 1000 fps on chrono. Using some old ICI Nobel 78 Shotgun powder I have. Nice powder! Also AP70N - a bit dirtier. Holdover is not as bad as you might think. Try plinking at clay banks so you can see the puff of dirt. I set zero on the rear ramp for two positions, 60 and 100 meters. I do a fair bit of random plinking to help gauge distance. I don't have a range finder but step shots out as much as poss. I missed shots early on holding over too much. Overestimating distance.

I see hornady is expanding on their subsonic range and including 45-70 and 450 Bushmaster plus others as well

Originally Posted by Jhon

Still under 1000 fps on chrono. Using some old ICI Nobel 78 Shotgun powder I have. Nice powder! Also AP70N - a bit dirtier. Holdover is not as bad as you might think. Try plinking at clay banks so you can see the puff of dirt. I set zero on the rear ramp for two positions, 60 and 100 meters. I do a fair bit of random plinking to help gauge distance. I don't have a range finder but step shots out as much as poss. I missed shots early on holding over too much. Overestimating distance.

Where did you get the load data for the ap70n? Its a pistol powder and I don't recall seeing it for 45-70

Originally Posted by Russian 22.

Where did you get the load data for the ap70n? Its a pistol powder and I don't recall seeing it for 45-70

AP70N is great powder for subs. Much less velocity spread than TB. Have a play for load data. Just start out with pistol load data from the likes of Nick Harvey. The start loads are so low for subs that no one will be hitting high pressure. 7.5 grn ap70n with a 300 grn slug in the 44.

Originally Posted by Jhon

Still under 1000 fps on chrono. Using some old ICI Nobel 78 Shotgun powder I have. Nice powder! Also AP70N - a bit dirtier. Holdover is not as bad as you might think. Try plinking at clay banks so you can see the puff of dirt. I set zero on the rear ramp for two positions, 60 and 100 meters. I do a fair bit of random plinking to help gauge distance. I don't have a range finder but step shots out as much as poss. I missed shots early on holding over too much. Overestimating distance.

With a 100m zero that bullet has 1 ft drop by 135m and loses an entire extra foot just over the next 20m. Shooting to 150m on goats, If you are out by 15m in your estimation, your bullet is 8-10" off. Thats better range estimation than I can manage.

Originally Posted by faregame

I see hornady is expanding on their subsonic range and including 45-70 and 450 Bushmaster plus others as well

How about this range of projectiles boys and girls. They are bore riders in the front section which means they don't get distorted taking the rifling with the very thin front jacket over the split lead.Home - Outlaw State Bullets LLC

Originally Posted by Russian 22.

Where did you get the load data for the ap70n? Its a pistol powder and I don't recall seeing it for 45-70

Using AP70N for 357 Mag and 38sp...don't have a 45-70