Thread: Impact joules and ethics

Originally Posted by 16Tontovarish

Thanks folks. A quick check of my ballistics I've measured gives me about 300m for the whitetail and well past 500m on the eldx before the velocity gets iffy.

Where does your foot pounds of energy sit

Originally Posted by No.3

Bullet energy is a reflection of the hydraulic effects of the wound - and I feel a hangover from the days of cast lead solids. Impact energy transfer is a better indicator of bullet performance - and this is usually a reflection of bullet expansion and the increase of frontal area after expansion which is the result of bullet design. That same bullet design works on the impact velocity between a certain range and to a lesser extent what the bullet strikes on the way through, which causes the expansion.

Drive the bullet too fast and hit solid stuff, and the jacket is likely to peel back off and lead to explosive expansion. This might be OK results wise, or you might get some animals that you don't anchor depending on what the small fragments do. These days, there is also more concern with lead contaminating the game. The other side is too slow, and the jacket doesn't open resulting in a thin pencil hole stuck right through. Not as effective...

This is why manufacturer's usually quote a velocity range for their projectiles along with the energy - both probably need to be used together to get the 'proper' answer to this question.

Sectional density joule foot seconds per second? Fast enough to expand for the given bullet, enough energy to penetrate far enough for a given sectional density?
I have the equation wrong, but that's the calculation, right? No wonder people go for the crude measures of foot pound or m/s

Simple really. KISS. Shoot animals with intended projectile. If they work keep using them. If they don’t, stop using them. Start at shorter ranges and work your way out. Although dead meat doesn’t behave exactly like live meat shoot an animal and use as target at maximum intended range and see what bullet does. Goats are a plentiful source for target material around here.

As @Jus mentioned think about and use impact velocity and what the minimum required is for the projectile you use to reliably expand and thus do its thing in/through the animals tissue.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Most bullets will bounce off a deer at 999 foot pounds and will actually ricochet

Originally Posted by Sakoswarosorted

Most bullets will bounce off a deer at 999 foot pounds and will actually ricochet

What a crock of shit that statement is. A shit load of deer have hit the deck for myself and others using calibers/bullets that deliver less energy than that. First deer I shot was with a 22lr 51 years ago, dropped on the spot. Many more have done so over the years. Nearly every one of 352 deer shot last year was with 223 using 55gr bullets delivering less energy than your statement.

I shot a fallow buck this morning with a 73gr .223 factory ELDM. Impact V about 1965fps and 625 ftlb. The deer died satisfactorily.


Energy numbers are a next-to-useless tool for predicting effectiveness. Actual bullet performance at the relevant impact velocity, and the wound created, is what matters

For a very interesting and informative read, read Nathan Fosters book "Long range hunting cartridges". He spells out what is required to kill an animal.

Nathan Foster: Effective Game Killing.
FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness

Originally Posted by Magnetite

Nathan Foster: Effective Game Killing.
FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness

Thats a good read, especially around the .224 6mm ....... while some people can do it beyond the 300, I personally wouldn't nor recommend it for newer hunters....


Hamish

I haven't seen much of Fosters work, But reading that I tend towards thinking Im on a similar path. His use of the words Intelligent, and empathy, is where I feel I'm headed.

In that I think about the results of my kills and my overriding aim is quick, as painless as possible kills.

I agree that appropriate projectile construction with velocity and as much weight as you are comfortable shooting is ideal.

That said, If you know yourself and know you are better and more accurate with a lighter caliber, then that is the best option for you. As others have said, a bad shot with a medium or bigger bore, is still a bad shot and the result will be poor.

Originally Posted by Sakoswarosorted

Most bullets will bounce off a deer at 999 foot pounds and will actually ricochet

Yes I have experienced this , and it is quite annoying and embarrassing too.

Originally Posted by Sakoswarosorted

Most bullets will bounce off a deer at 999 foot pounds and will actually ricochet

that explains .22lr subs skipping off everything

Originally Posted by woods223

What a crock of shit that statement is. A shit load of deer have hit the deck for myself and others using calibers/bullets that deliver less energy than that. First deer I shot was with a 22lr 51 years ago, dropped on the spot. Many more have done so over the years. Nearly every one of 352 deer shot last year was with 223 using 55gr bullets delivering less energy than your statement.

Yeah nar ,I think ol mate @Sakoswarosorted was taking the Michael and yourve just taken the bait hook line n sinker.Think it's called phishing

Yeah whatever. Bullshit posts like that just piss me off.