Thread: Kaimanawa Forest Park

Originally Posted by Tahr

This can only be settled through 2 avenues. Neither include conjecture through here.

1) Negotiated access with the Trust by a statutory or credible organisation.
2) A legal challenge against the Trust for access.

Neither can be entered into without evidence, have you gone in search of evidence?

Originally Posted by Tahr

This can only be settled through 2 avenues. Neither include conjecture through here.

1) Negotiated access with the Trust by a statutory or credible organisation.
2) A legal challenge against the Trust for access.

Neither can be entered into without evidence, have you gone in search of evidence?

Originally Posted by Dazzh

Neither can be entered into without evidence, have you gone in search of evidence?

Of course. It is my job.
There is no unequivocal evidence.
Strong evidence may inform or sway negotiation. Alternatively the weight of public opinion might hold sway despite the lack of evidence. Unlikely.
In the the absence of a negotiated agreement the strength of the evidence will need to be tested in the Courts.

Originally Posted by Mohawk .308

You’d make a good politician for the Labour Party.

Why do you say that? Speak up about your strategy for a public access outcome?

Not just hunters and trampers use these roads.

Originally Posted by john m

Attachment 202777
Attachment 202778
Not just hunters and trampers use these roads.

Exactly. Waipakahi Rd is an iconic access point into the Kaimanawas.

Originally Posted by Dazzh

Have you gone in search of evidence?

Yes I have.
Some indicates it isn't public land.
Some indicates it may not be private land.
Some indicates the road may be an easement on the private title (which does not change the ownership, and does not automatically mean the public have right of access).

Websites that show some relevant information don't show all the information needed to find out the answer (e.g the WAMS website).
None of the posts in this thread or the social media posts on this topic have shown evidence of ownership either way.

Well I would say, Tahr, that determining the legal status of the road would be a good place to start rather than suggesting negotiation with a body who may or may not have the legal authority to grant or deny use of this road.

Looking at the wams map about this I couldn’t help to look at the road through poronui, I thought that was private but it’s a public rd, how come that’s shut off🤷*♂️

Yes. Apart from my own family wr have often seen and spoken to others whp are picnicing or simply enjoying the pleasant environments in all flur roads and in particular Rangipo, Tree trunk gorge and Waipakihi. Removing vehicle access will definately exclude families, children and older persons from the Kaimanawa Forest park infact most casual visitors and campers. Be a great loss to thousands if 24/7 vehicle free access is denied.

Originally Posted by Sauer

Well I would say, Tahr, that determining the legal status of the road would be a good place to start rather than suggesting negotiation with a body who may or may not have the legal authority to grant or deny use of this road.

So tell me how the legal status of the road (and its relevance to access) can be determined without a legal argument in Court? The only possibility outside of Court are arguments for or against in an attempt to gain some negotiation leverage (if one legal opinion appears to have greater weight than another). The Trust will certainly have taken legal advice and will have relied on that in making their decision about access.

Public opinion and a principled argument (maybe bolstered by a strong legal opinion) is most likely to win the day. "We are right and you are wrong" is unlikely to.

Originally Posted by Cigar

Yes I have.
Some indicates it isn't public land.
Some indicates it may not be private land.
Some indicates the road may be an easement on the private title (which does not change the ownership, and does not automatically mean the public have right of access).

Websites that show some relevant information don't show all the information needed to find out the answer (e.g the WAMS website).
None of the posts in this thread or the social media posts on this topic have shown evidence of ownership either way.

Thanks for the reply. I don't have anything suggesting Waipakihi road is an easement over privately owned land. Would you be willing to share this document with me?

Originally Posted by Tirau

Looking at the wams map about this I couldn’t help to look at the road through poronui, I thought that was private but it’s a public rd, how come that’s shut off��*♂️

In the case of Poronui, I believe that the public access route and the formed road do not coincide therefore it is public foot access only.

Originally Posted by Dazzh

Thanks for the reply. I don't have anything suggesting Waipakihi road is an easement over privately owned land. Would you be willing to share this document with me?

The maps show the road with its own title number, separate to the trust title number - which is the same on both sides of the road.
An easement wouldn't have a separate title.

Originally Posted by Dazzh

Thanks for the reply. I don't have anything suggesting Waipakihi road is an easement over privately owned land. Would you be willing to share this document with me?

The maps show the road with its own title number, separate to the trust title number - which is the same on both sides of the road.
An easement wouldn't have a separate title.