Thread: Kaimanawa Forest Park

Originally Posted by Dazzh

Thanks for the reply. I don't have anything suggesting Waipakihi road is an easement over privately owned land. Would you be willing to share this document with me?

I'll see if I can find the website again, I think it was a Maori land one.
It didn't say the road was an easement, it simply stated there was an easement to Genesis and it's successors, but not what the easement actually is.

https://www.maorilandonline.govt.nz/gis/title/19945.htm

The last line of the last table mentions the easement.

Originally Posted by Cigar

I'll see if I can find the website again, I think it was a Maori land one.
It didn't say the road was an easement, it simply stated there was an easement to Genesis and it's successors, but not what the easement actually is.

That would be appreciated, even if only to discount it.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

The maps show the road with its own title number, separate to the trust title number - which is the same on both sides of the road.
An easement wouldn't have a separate title.

Which maps? The WAMS property information one that show the road may be separate just say "no information available".

Originally Posted by Cigar

Which maps? The WAMS property information one that show the road may be separate just say "no information available".

From the land transfer office.

In regards to Shearer's comment - i believe the paper rd through Poronui Station is actually poled partly through a swamp to the left of the access road that Poronui has allowed the public to walk on to the upper Mohaka? At least you have a reliable car park to safely park your vehicle? Our forefathers may not have walked the route in the day to see it wasn't very practical for a vehicle for most of it? The Waipakihi Road in comparison is just that - a formed rd suitable for driving a vehicle on. Doubt anyone would want to park their vehicle next to SH1 and hope its still there when they return?

Originally Posted by Shearer

In the case of Poronui, I believe that the public access route and the formed road do not coincide therefore it is public foot access only.

Yep the public road stops at the big stone gate. The walking access was or is called a paper road- it is the owners of the property that decide if the walking track can be used- this changed or came up again 10 or 20 years ago.Difference here is all of the land past the stone gate is private including the privately maintained road for the properties vehicles.

I’m sorry Tahr, but your (as of late) increasing petulance and fist thumping doesn’t impress me. If a legal determination in court in required to establish ownership is what is required, then that is what must occur.

No amount of negotiation with a group who do not have legal ownership will result in an agreement that has any legal standing.

I have a problem with large trucks parking on the grass berm outside my place and rutting it so badly I cannot mow it. From what you seem to be suggesting, it will be okay if I fence it off so they cannot park there - even though I don’t own the land. What utter bollocks.

I've got the original survey map in front of me, and it specifically says "Land taken". I also have the latest copy of the LINZ record which says the purpose is "Water development" .

Something that may bear clarifying is that prior to 1968 this land was part of the National Park. In 1968 there was essentially a simultaneous creation of the road, and the Trust blocks.
As separate pieces of land. That is, there are two Trust blocks, with a separate road between them.

I am still waiting on the Maori Land Court to reply.

Duplicate post

Duplicate post.

WTF is going on with the forum currently - the speed is so slow that people (and me) are accidentally double (or triple) posting thinking that the first hasn't gone through.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

I've got the original survey map in front of me, and it specifically says "Land taken". I also have the latest copy of the LINZ record which says the purpose is "Water development" .

Something that may bear clarifying is that prior to 1968 this land was part of the National Park. In 1968 there was essentially a simultaneous creation of the road, and the Trust blocks.
As separate pieces of land. That is, there are two Trust blocks, with a separate road between them.

I am still waiting on the Maori Land Court to reply.

I am holding documents that back this up. Something of interest is the the original survey shows the road being 100 feet (30 meters wide). The latest deposited drawings show it as 25 meters.

Add to Cigars,WAMS Property Information Map has those easements highlighted in black. First one down Rangipo Intake Rd is a triangle piece and the second is at the T intersection on sealed piece.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

Duplicate post.

WTF is going on with the forum currently - the speed is so slow that people (and me) are accidentally double (or triple) posting thinking that the first hasn't gone through.

Now now Mr Nolan, don't dis the forum or you may be gated.

Dont know about Waipakihi but Rangipo has had a lot of surveying done lately locating boundary pegs.

The Maori Land Court has just replied, as below. They misinterpreted the query, but the points are 1) this is Crown Land, and 2) there doesn't appear to be any agreement regarding any modification of the road.

Tēnā koe Ross

Regarding your enquiry, the gazette notice NZG50/1344, it’s one of those attached documents you sent us with the LINZ reference 830361.2, it indicates that the area that goes through the middle of the Rangipo North 7C block was taken by the Crown for the purpose of ‘the development of water power (Tongariro Power Scheme).

Without access to the M.O.W. 22306 (S.O. 27023) plan which the gazette notice quotes, I can only assume that the 19 acres 2 roods 19.1 perches stated in the gazette notice is the alignment that you can see going through the middle of 7C.

As to ownership of the road that goes over this easement, technically it belongs to the Crown (local government) since this easement is owned by the Crown and what is on it belongs to the Crown.

If it is determined that another entity such as the Rangipo North 7C Trust is claiming ownership of the road, this may not be correct. They may have built the road and laid out all the costs for the road construction however approval by the Crown would have needed to of been sought from the Crown first before the Trust built the road over the easement. This scenario would come about if the road was built after the area was set aside as an easement back in 1968.

If it is determined that the roadway was already in place before the easement was established then the Trust should have at least been given permission by the Crown to continue using the road. An arrangement that may be noted elsewhere on the LINZ record (we have nothing on our record other than a copy of the gazette notice) or is one that can be reached with both Trust and the Crown, if the Crown chooses to take that up with the Trust.

If the M.O.W. 22306 (S.O. 27023) plan verifies the 19 acres 2 roods 19.1 perches as being this alignment, then the information given above is correct.

I trust this helps to answer your questions.


This all seems pretty clear, and is in line with what I thought at the beginning. Everyone involved someone else had done the due diligence, or were just acting on what they knew, not what was actually the truth.

Might be time for a few people to reconsider their positions.