Thread: Kaimanawa Forest Park

I have sent an email to LINZ following this up, will let you know what returns

No. Although it is signposted as Waipakihi road, it is still unclear if it is in fact a "road". What is clear is that it is crown land ie: not privately owned. I will look back through what I have, but I think it is zoned "Rural Environment".

There's also references that the land was taken so with the current government the trust will just ask for it back if they have no legal ownership today. I'm on the fence between talking nicely for the best outcome or fighting tooth and nail for what the titles seem to be showing.
I haven't heard anything back from Megan yet but it'll be interesting to see how her chat goes.

The land was taken when it still existed as Tongariro national park, not private land. The term TAKEN may not mean precisely what you think. Maybe That could chime in here for some insight.

Originally Posted by Dazzh

The land was taken when it still existed as Tongariro national park, not private land. The term TAKEN may not mean precisely what you think. Maybe That could chime in here for some insight.

Apologies for my spelling and grammar.
- Not mean quite what you think.
- Maybe Thar could give a little insight into the implications of "Taken"

These four + access routes were built to be roads in the first place and used as such. Roads vehicular or vehicle access routes- tracks; same thing is'nt it.
Oxford dictionary definition:
road
/rəʊd/
Learn to pronounce
See definitions in:
All
Transportation
Mining
noun
1.
a wide way leading from one place to another, especially one with a specially prepared surface which vehicles can use.
"a country road"

Originally Posted by Woody

These four + access routes were built to be roads in the first place and used as such. Roads vehicular or vehicle access routes- tracks; same thing is'nt it.
Oxford dictionary definition:
road
/rəʊd/
Learn to pronounce
See definitions in:
All
Transportation
Mining
noun
1.
a wide way leading from one place to another, especially one with a specially prepared surface which vehicles can use.
"a country road"

Now look up the definition of "legal road".

Do you think NZED used "illegal roads"?

Originally Posted by Woody

Do you think NZED used "illegal roads"?

Yip, and they probably fined themselves for doing it.... As a tax break.

And the NZED spawned some SOEs which continue to use the ""roads"" !

Here is a bit of history that might be relevant.
Some of you may know of View road which connects Broadlands rd to Aratitia Dam and SH5. This road was built by NZED and was "unclassified as class 1 or 2 or 3 and commonly used by class 1 trucks to avoid the nth broadland rd class2 weight restrictions. My understanding was that it was an "unofficial road" built to allow the dam consyruction and servicing from Wairakie hydro village and to Broadlands road. Now today it still serves the dam maintainance role but also serves to provide public and tourist access to the dam and Aratiatia rapids, rapids jet, polocross grounds and walkway up to Huka falls and the Rotokawa geothetmal power station and Fullfames rapids as well as a regular road traffic thoroughfare.
I see the four access roads off desert road as qualifying to follow this and pther NZED and similar public works precedents. Also note that the SOEs are still majority NZ public owned shares.

Originally Posted by Woody

Here is a bit of history that might be relevant.
Some of you may know of View road which connects Broadlands rd to Aratitia Dam and SH5. This road was built by NZED and was "unclassified as class 1 or 2 or 3 and commonly used by class 1 trucks to avoid the nth broadland rd class2 weight restrictions. My understanding was that it was an "unofficial road" built to allow the dam consyruction and servicing from Wairakie hydro village and to Broadlands road. Now today it still serves the dam maintainance role but also serves to provide public and tourist access to the dam and Aratiatia rapids, rapids jet, polocross grounds and walkway up to Huka falls and the Rotokawa geothetmal power station and Fullfames rapids as well as a regular road traffic thoroughfare.
I see the four access roads off desert road as qualifying to follow this and pther NZED and similar public works precedents. Also note that the SOEs are still majority NZ public owned shares.

It is interesting that you mention this road, it is the very same road a resource consent specialist used as an example while talking with him about Waipakihi road today.

Waipakihi Road maybe a "road" in function and structure, however doesn't have the legal status of "legal road to pass and re pass", even if the title says it is owned by the Crown that doesn't mean it is actually a legal road. The land was aquired rather than taken through a process that pays the private owners going value for the land, although in my opinion the buyer has more advantage than the seller.

Originally Posted by Ruger7mm

Waipakihi Road maybe a "road" in function and structure, however doesn't have the legal status of "legal road to pass and re pass", even if the title says it is owned by the Crown that doesn't mean it is actually a legal road. The land was aquired rather than taken through a process that pays the private owners going value for the land, although in my opinion the buyer has more advantage than the seller.

It was "acquired" from one Government department (Tongariro National Park) by another (NZED). The land in question was gifted by Horonuku Te Heuheu Tūkino IV, starting back in the late 1800's and finishing up as what we see as the TNP in the very early 1900's. The land either side only became Maori Trust land at the same time as the road was surveyed off and became Crown Land.

For it suddenly to become not Crown land would seem mighty suspicious, given the 54 odd year history of the road being used by the public to access the Kaimanawa Forest Park.

With all the literature that's gone back and forth between forum members and government departments, it looks to me that this issue needs as much sunlight as possible...right now... to ensure ultimate transparency over what happens to Crown land and the public access it has afforded us all for over the last half century.

But also consider the tenure of the land when the Tongariro project initiated. Consider too the Mangakino village and Karapiro and Arapuni amongst others.