Thread: Kaimanawa Forest Park

Originally Posted by Tahr

This thread has turned to the usual un-constructive political and racial slurring. Hopeless.

Yes. Hence my conclusion statement earlier. Most threads die in this fashion.

The crux of this is that the government appear to be able to give away public land to private enterprise (at the expense of other users) with no consultation or even informing affected parties. The race card is a total red herring. It makes no difference to me whether that private organization is Maori, European, Chinese or whatever. This should not be able to happen! I have no problem with government supporting business either, but not by taking from other New Zealanders.
All very well for some to say "Move on" or "Get over it. It is the future". Lets hope you have a good explanation for your grandkids about how this future came about when they ask you where all the back country huts and tracks went and why they can't walk into the Otane, Harkness, Cupola and Misery like you did as a young man.

It is interesting how other countries like Scotland have legislated public access across private and the public estate.
Maybe NZ need to look outside of out little world.

Originally Posted by erniec

It is interesting how other countries like Scotland have legislated public access across private and the public estate.
Maybe NZ need to look outside of out little world.

That's the exact "outside the square" thinking that is required in order for public access to remain in the hands of the public and not private entities. Crying wolf when something like public access is removed is a complete waste of time. If these corporate bodies want to go behind closed doors without public consultation and overturn our public access rights, then having a legal road block (excuse the pun) is a system that would work for us in our favor to future proof history repeating itself.

Originally Posted by Rusky

That's the exact "outside the square" thinking that is required in order for public access to remain in the hands of the public and not private entities. Crying wolf when something like public access is removed is a complete waste of time. If these corporate bodies want to go behind closed doors without public consultation and overturn our public access rights, then having a legal road block (excuse the pun) is a system that would work for us in our favor to future proof history repeating itself.

The real concern here is not the private parties, but rather the Govt bodies that are flat out giving away the Public ownership of the Crown Estate.

Private companies, Trusts etc will (nearly) always game the system to their advantage, but the Govt is supposed to be working on behalf of ALL New Zealanders. They are giving away assets that are meant to be held in trust for all New Zealanders, for all time.

You are right, but we need to be able to say look this works for others keeps all parties happy and gives them a roadmap to work too.
Access like the Waipakihi needs to be recognised as a access that has been used and enjoyed by many for decades.
Looked after maintained and those who abuse it sorted.
Not just locked up.
I can afford the odd helicopter trip but happy to use shanks pony as well.
But their are many who cannot afford nor want a helicopter trip that need access kept for them.

This was posted on FB by Kaimanawa Alpine Adventures today.

Hi --- , if you and any other user with concerns about the gate on Waipakahi road would like to send us an email to info@kaa.co.nz highlighting your concerns. Also ideally some suggestions on how you think access can be maintained, benefiting both land owners and park users. I will ensure this gets past along to the Trust as they talk with DOC to decide the best way to manage access.

Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

Kaimanawa Alpine adventures are Helisika.

Disingenuous is the politest word I can come up with for their FB post.

Also, I would remind everyone that both LINZ and the Maori Land Court state that the piece of land the road is on is Crown Land. I'd believe their research over the nonsense coming from the NZ Access Commission.

I received this from HeliSika this morning.

As far as we have been made aware the road itself is owned by the trust, however this is not my field mate i'm just trying to mediate to ensure the best outcome for everyone.

If the road was crown owned then as far as i'm aware they legally can’t close the gate. However, I'm fairly confident the Trust have done there due diligence and the road is Trust Owned.
Either way this is not my field that’s a job for the lawyers,

If the road is Owned by the Trust they have a right to close public access as you would if people were driving over your land.

However, we don’t want to see this happen, we would much prefer a system to allow access for all users. That is where suggestions would be welcome on how this may work.
Possibly similar to Poronui with parking and a poled route so you can still access the park.

The issue with leaving the gate open is 4WD vehicles can access the river bed. Over the years they have caused plenty of damage and left rubbish and permanent campsites etc up the river, and i'm sure nobody wants to see the area deteriorate in such a way.

If you have any other suggestions you would like passed on to the people make the decision please let me know.

Kind Regards

Thomas Orr
Kaimanawa Alpine Adventures

I don't facebook, but if someone who does can pm me their email address I'll send them the email from the Maori Land Court, and they can send it to Mr Orr.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

I don't facebook, but if someone who does can pm me their email address I'll send them the email from the Maori Land Court, and they can send it to Mr Orr.

I don't either. Just use the link in post #541. It should go straight to your email.

Who owns the land now is largely irrelevant, it's who owns it in the near future that is the really important bit.

The gates were open last week, so I assume the land hasn't been handed over yet.

Who owns it now is very important, because if it is the Crown there has to be a transparent and reasonable process observed to change that ownership which, if seen as unjust, can be challenged.

Originally Posted by Shearer

Who owns it now is very important, because if it is the Crown there has to be a transparent and reasonable process observed to change that ownership which, if seen as unjust, can be challenged.

I expect that any process around transferring ownership happened quite some time ago, and its just the 'i' dotting and 't' crossing left to do.

https://fb.watch/g7oP7SdQ2M/