Thread: Lead bullets and their risk to human health

Funny I was eating a backsteak this week and had something stuck in my molar I couldn’t shift , eventually flicked it out with a toothpick and it was a piece of lead , did get me thinking then this thread pops up ….

I am unconvinced that lead is either dangerous or problematic for any of us. Lead pipes, lead soldered copper pipes, lead paint (even on houses and kids toys) and leaded petrol were everywhere in my younger years. As a teen I melted the lead from lead head nails and cast it in earth moulds and ate game killed with lead bullets and lead pellets and yet, here I still am with no lead induced ailments. Unless I am sorely mistaken, you fellahs are all still here as well.

Originally Posted by NZBeeMan

The podcast has nothing to do with banning lead in ammo, but is more about making an informed choice as a hunter and consumer of wild meat

But that's the point.... If folks keep repeating,lead= bad. There will no longer BE a choice.

Originally Posted by csmiffy

Breathe it in as fumes like the old school panel beaters or on a range, vastly different.
get it in your lungs and it's bad

OSH and PPE were pretty much non existent in the panelbeating industry when i started , bog was a very new novelty item , what we couldnt hammer and file was leaded lead was also a staple for fuel tank repairs no masks on top of that the painters would be spraying enamels loaded with iso cyanates they would be wearing masks but the panelbeaters would be breathing in all that crap ...... i get my lungs tested annually .... up until last year i always had the lung capacity of someone half my age but now its catching up with me , probably by the time i retire my lung capacity will be that of a pensioner ..... if im lucky ...and dont get me started on the hearing protection we werent allowed to wear because we had to be able to hear the hammer or slapstick hitting the right spot.

ps ... im not worried about lead bullets

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Woke ,PC feelgood bullshit being pushed by global wish for less small arms in civilian hands. If the ammunition is more expensive and harder to get.less people will buy it,afford it.if it kills less efficiently,more people will be put off using it and give up hunting. If it's deemed inhumain at killing,far easier to legislate it's banning. There you go,all the conspiracy wrapped up nicely. I shall continue to use lead ammunition for as long as possibly can do so.

Let's not forget those warnings on cigarette packets too. Yet another example of 'the man' trying to stop hard working folks like me from having a good time.

Interesting podcast....what's particularly interesting is that given the evidence of how much a lead bullet "can" disintegrate as it travels through the game, both of the "scientists" and the presenter ignore the elephant in the room...which is that a copper projectile will likely behave in a similar manner and copper is a known carcinogen AND copper poisoning can be just as bad as lead poisoning so in conclusion........lots of things we do or use have risks attached to them...and it's part of being human to manage those as we see fit. Given the brevity of the piece, it was unsurprising that it focused on the "shock horror" aspect of their findings without really backing it up. For instance, the hunter they first mentioned, how much of his elevated lead levels were due to reloading? No idea, as they didn't mention if they asked him if he reloaded (or what he did for a living, a friend of mine is going through a lengthy lead flushing program to remove lead ingested as a painter, sanding old paint with deficient masks), so their example is purely anecdotal and not based in fact at all...but that seems to be par for the course from many "scientists" these days, ego gets in the way of factual reporting. Like others I've been exposed to lead in solid form through eating game birds and through other forms, still here, asymptomatic, my doc tells me I'm in rude health all things considered and my bloods are boringly and monotonously on the low side of average...go figure

Just all BS designed to ban hunting by the antics.

For starters we want to go hunting, it isn't a job.
Who eat's contaminated bruised meat?
Who is banning swimming, heaps drown every year?
Who knows a hunter who died of lead poisoning?
How many die on the roads, are cars banned?
How many deaths at work? Is work banned?

Are fishers being targeted as they handle lead sinkers?

They tried this sh1t in Victoria recently saying heaps of Eagles were dieing of lead poisoning. It was wind farms that were killing them. FMD. They never give up have zero proof, zero ethics.

They know SFA about lead poisoning and how it works. They are DHs
with an agenda.

I used to machine tons of lead in the 90's, luckily the company did things quite responsibly. We were warned about smoking/eating with dirty hands but my blood tests showed a steady increase in the lead levels. It eventually came back down but they didn't put me back on those jobs for a few years. It must of been bad as hell for the guys smelting it if my minimal contact increased the levels in my blood, however contact via meat hunting wouldn't concern me in the slightest.

Originally Posted by NZBeeMan

The podcast has nothing to do with banning lead in ammo, but is more about making an informed choice as a hunter and consumer of wild meat

Valid - I was speaking more towards the lead rifle projectile bans elsewhere in the world.

Well fair warning to any latent cannibals out there. I've been carrying lead in my flesh for decades now. Don't eat on me...

Originally Posted by NZBeeMan

On the way home from work today I listened to this podcast from "Our Chainging World" on RNZ:

Lead bullets and their risk to human health

For me the main reason to use non-fragmenting copper-alloy bullets by now is not so much because of toxicity...
I am pretty sure other stuff is not much better regarding carcinogenic concerns.

I wrote the main reason in another thread already:
Working with hounds whilsts tracking or on driven hunts in close proximity to quarry shot.

Quote:
"After I saw two very good tracking dogs killed by shrapnel in recent years and from very odd angles in relation to the animal shot, I switched to lead-free non-fragmenting bullets.
By now there are plenty that work very well: Hornady CX, FOX Classic Hunter, Sako Powerhead Blade, RWS HIT... You name them..."

Another very nice side effect is very little meat damage on smaller game.
I actually got rid of my 223 and get all my (tiny) roe deer and even geese with my .308 WIN and a deforming copper-alloy bullet.
By now the ones with good design expand reliably and very uniformly between 900 m/s and around 500 m/s from my experience.

But I for longer range shots I think a good "cupNcore" is hard to beat...

Cheers
Ben

Originally Posted by outlander

Well fair warning to any latent cannibals out there. I've been carrying lead in my flesh for decades now. Don't eat on me...

Same here.

It's about minimising exposure - lead is not good for us at any level, whereas copper is essential.

Incidentally, this week is international lead poisoning prevention week.

Copper bullets are expensive but for the meat for charity I try to use copper. Hammers in .223 work good.
When shot with lead I trim well away from wounds and bullet holes.
I don't fancy eating lead.

Originally Posted by Jhon

If you're getting vaporized lead fumes from melting lead you are heating it far too high. Melting point of lead is a lot lower than vapour point, 621.4F Vaporization happens above 900F.

There is more danger from the chemical dust from spent primers when decapping. Unless the non-toxic ones, they likely have Lead styfanate in them which produces lead oxide when detonated. Fine powdery stuff. You will also see it as white surface powder on old lead, oxidation or rust. Really really bad for you.

Swab tests will show the greatest dangerous levels of lead contamination from reloading are in the immediate bench and floor areas where you decap/deprime brass. Why you don't do it at the kitchen table! Also why you put additive in corncob media for tumbling. Not just for the shine James but to hold the dust down cause that is really poisonous shit to breathe or get on yer hands and into yer mouth. Elemental lead can reside in your muscle tissue, as a slug or bullet, most your life, decades, without raising your blood lead levels. But if you ingest lead oxide powders or vaporized lead its likely a very different and not happy outcome.

You can get lead material adhering to the fume/smoke on the way out. With melting metal, anything inhaled = bad...

And while copper in a small amount is an essential mineral, too much is insanely toxic. Check what copper swarf or pellets ground up for recycling did to Astrolabe reef after the RENA hit...