Thread: Maybe need to start shooting everything we see in some areas

Originally Posted by Ben Waimata

@hebe the fundamental difference in what we are saying is I was speaking in the most basic generalities and you used nuance! Perhaps a better way of looking at it is a modern affluent culture might see 'pest' animals destroying an ecosystem and be prepared to expend the time and effort into attempting to eradicate the damaging species to preserve the whole. By contrast others (for example people in desperate poverty trying to keep their family alive by hunting meat) have a huge vested interest in harvesting this meat in a long term sustainable way, or even letting the game numbers build up to provide plenty for the future. In many respects these two approaches are incompatible, which I think is why this whole discussion will always be difficult to resolve.

As an example I hand sowed 100,000 nikau seeds in a bush remnant gully about 15 or 20 years ago and had masses of palms up to about 1m high, now they are almost all gone due to the deer. Preserving long term access to venison in this gully is a very low priority for me. But at the same time a bloke on a lifestyle block down the road has allegedly been actively releasing fallow deer so he can hunt them, and has zero interest in preserving natural biodiversity. Can't keep everyone happy.

Fair enough, that makes more sense. Did misinterpret you after all.
No offence meant in the least

"Thread: Maybe need to start shooting everything we see in some areas".

God knows I have tried.

Originally Posted by Dusty Fog

hmm,funny that,my place had miles of nikau with pigs and goats yet they survived the supposed onslaught well,and goats eat everything

That's just annoying!!! You hardly ever see nikau around this area, although there are a few around. A bit further north there are patches of dense nikau (eg Waipatiki Beach). I wonder if mine got hammered partly for their novelty value? I had some super rare Ceroxylon palms from seed collected in the Quindiuense Valley above Bogota, the deer killed them too.

Originally Posted by Ben Waimata

That's just annoying!!! You hardly ever see nikau around this area, although there are a few around. A bit further north there are patches of dense nikau (eg Waipatiki Beach). I wonder if mine got hammered partly for their novelty value? I had some super rare Ceroxylon palms from seed collected in the Quindiuense Valley above Bogota, the deer killed them too.

Is your property quite dry? I wonder if they were looking for water.

Originally Posted by Tahr

"Thread: Maybe need to start shooting everything we see in some areas".

God knows I have tried.

Yes you have, and how is that going

Sent from my SM-G996B using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

there is one major difference....today the herds havent had the big block of time to build up or the big areas at back of nowhere to do it...we are so much more mobile these days...eg big station shepherds zip out back on side by side in hour at most...what used to be days ride on horse... places werent visited for months on end,now get "seen' on regular basis.
but 100% agree the chopper is the ultimate control tool......controlling the use of the tool for maximum benifit for all is the tricky bit.

Large areas that weren't home to deer 40-50 years have growing populations. Just in the area here which was once your old stamping ground there are animals in areas where none existed 20 years ago when I moved to King Country. With all the farmland being converted for carbon credits, more ideal habitat will be created, the mind boggles at what another 10-20 growth will create.

Originally Posted by Ben Waimata

I had some super rare Ceroxylon palms from seed collected in the Quindiuense Valley above Bogota, the deer killed them too.

So you're complaining that one non-native species killed another non-native species

Originally Posted by Tahr

"Thread: Maybe need to start shooting everything we see in some areas".

God knows I have tried.

I got 92 deer in DOC land last year which would be only shot 10% of the deer I’d seen.

Our local NZDA has been working in with DOC focusing on undulate control, our last trip in October we shot 53 deer(48 females) and 448 goats.
We did two trips like this last year but we could of done this at least once a month for the year.
If all the county NZDA and other shooting clubs work in together on problem areas and some government help with funding would be awesome.

Some of the DOC boundary farms and stations have hundreds of deer on them. When the numbers get up the helicopter comes in and they fill the game chiller. I don’t know what it’s like in other parts of the country doing this.

The chopper has a regular beat down where I’m working shoots over 100 in a morning to fill the truck

Originally Posted by tikka

I got 92 deer in DOC land last year which would be only shot 10% of the deer I’d seen.

Our local NZDA has been working in with DOC focusing on undulate control, our last trip in October we shot 53 deer(48 females) and 448 goats.
We did two trips like this last year but we could of done this at least once a month for the year.
If all the county NZDA and other shooting clubs work in together on problem areas and some government help with funding would be awesome.

Some of the DOC boundary farms and stations have hundreds of deer on them. When the numbers get up the helicopter comes in and they fill the game chiller. I don’t know what it’s like in other parts of the country doing this.

That’s a lot. Do you or the local nzda have an outlet for some of it? I shoot the odd one and they go to a charity. When the numbers get up it’s quite a bit of work but worth while.

Choppers aren't shootin much here I heard as no market for the meat, yet they fly over my property daily

Originally Posted by tetawa

Large areas that weren't home to deer 40-50 years have growing populations. Just in the area here which was once your old stamping ground there are animals in areas where none existed 20 years ago when I moved to King Country. With all the farmland being converted for carbon credits, more ideal habitat will be created, the mind boggles at what another 10-20 growth will create.

Yep...but if farmland is being converted to forest then the habitat is expanding along with carrying capacity, isn't it?


I don't doubt that there are plenty of places with too may deer across NZ, but IMO those on private land are principally a matter for those land owners ( off-site impacts excluded), and I'd take nothing F&B said about anything at face value. I do think however there is scope for hunters to collectively take DoC on on its resistance to improving access to PCL for all sorts of activities, including hunting.

Originally Posted by Tahr

That’s a lot. Do you or the local nzda have an outlet for some of it? I shoot the odd one and they go to a charity. When the numbers get up it’s quite a bit of work but worth while.

For myself it normally a day to walk in and a day walking out, some places it’s two days to get into areas where the numbers are really high, so I just fill up with back steaks from 2 to 6 deer. Sometimes will take rumps, silverside and topside if I only get one animal. It is a waste giving the rest to the pigs and wasp but need to get the numbers down or the Government will kill everything. The pigs are no good as they have been eating all the deer and goat carcasses and taste rank. I give a lot of meat away to family, friends, neighbours and the boy at work.

With the NZDA we are flying into the back blocks of DOC and limited to how much we can bring out as well.

Originally Posted by tetawa

Large areas that weren't home to deer 40-50 years have growing populations. Just in the area here which was once your old stamping ground there are animals in areas where none existed 20 years ago when I moved to King Country. With all the farmland being converted for carbon credits, more ideal habitat will be created, the mind boggles at what another 10-20 growth will create.

amazing what many releases by safari farms does to boost a small resident population...there WERE NO fallow in the area 30 years ago.... and I personally saw video of them being released into poorly fenced block...fast forward 5 years and they were already popping up all over the show....
even good deer farmers get escapees.... thats folks who move them around and handle them regularly..not release into big area and leave them to it....
agree about the areas sold off for pine plantations....they big sanctuary...but still get more looked over than they would have years back.
we will see more of the big chopper culls....as to who ends up paying for them....

Originally Posted by Maxx

Yep...but if farmland is being converted to forest then the habitat is expanding along with carrying capacity, isn't it?


I don't doubt that there are plenty of places with too may deer across NZ, but IMO those on private land are principally a matter for those land owners ( off-site impacts excluded), and I'd take nothing F&B said about anything at face value. I do think however there is scope for hunters to collectively take DoC on on its resistance to improving access to PCL for all sorts of activities, including hunting.

They are a easier to control when necessary if the area is farmland than when the pines take over which creates good cover. Find the ones that have the last say at DOC have their agenda intrenched, there are still some good guys at the coal face but even those are diminishing.