Thread: Maybe need to start shooting everything we see in some areas

Originally Posted by thatguy

There are thousands of hunters like myself, eager to help farmers bring down the animal numbers if we can only get access. Maybe I’m to thick to work it out but why is there private land with exploding numbers then? That’s a genuine question, by the way.

I think this will answer the question.I have a hunting block that borders doc land and tbh I want numbers high. I let a few bods on to hunt it but don't want it getting shot up so much as to it affects my hunting.I reckon everyone that has a hunting block has the same outlook, productive farms could be different though but almost every farm has serious family member or friend that will hunt it and want to keep numbers good.

Originally Posted by Yesmate

I think this will answer the question.I have a hunting block that borders doc land and tbh I want numbers high. I let a few bods on to hunt it but don't want it getting shot up so much as to it affects my hunting.I reckon everyone that has a hunting block has the same outlook, productive farms could be different though but almost every farm has serious family member or friend that will hunt it and want to keep numbers good.

Makes sense. I’m just referring to any other farm that don’t want deer. Plenty of hunters to pick and choose from to help with the issue.

Originally Posted by Yesmate

I think this will answer the question.I have a hunting block that borders doc land and tbh I want numbers high. I let a few bods on to hunt it but don't want it getting shot up so much as to it affects my hunting.I reckon everyone that has a hunting block has the same outlook, productive farms could be different though but almost every farm has serious family member or friend that will hunt it and want to keep numbers good.

This is exactly what the issue is. What you are saying is 100% reasonable and rational, but possibly totally incompatible with the guy down the road with a native plant restoration project going. How to reconcile these two goals is beyond me.

Originally Posted by thatguy

Makes sense. I’m just referring to any other farm that don’t want deer. Plenty of hunters to pick and choose from to help with the issue.

So maybe the guy farming down the road from @Yesmate does not want deer and gets you in to shoot them. But poor old Yesmate has been watching one great stag and letting him get just a few months older, then you find this animal on the neighbouring farm and shoot him, and all the other deer Yesmate wants to protect for his hunting. See where the conflict arises? It does not work on a farm to farm basis, only on a district-wide basis. I've mentioned here already my desire to be deer-free, but there is a guy down the road who is allegedly deliberately releasing fallow. How do we reconcile this?

Interesting thread. Lots of great opinions based on practical experience.
My opinion is that aerial shooting is the only answer. There are just too many deer for private hunters to deal with. We have some fantastic hunters in the country. But the shear size of NZ’s back country makes it , plus practical consideration like jobs, families and other commitments, near impossible to keep numbers down.
In terms of private land it isn’t the holy grail many dream of. Don’t get me wrong access to these places are gold. You get plenty of deer. But…here’s my experience for what it’s worth. I have access to a sheep and cattle station. It is over run with deer. Often mobs of 40-50 are seen. However they aren’t stupid. They bugger off the minute you accidentally spook a mob of sheep. If you do get on to them a couple of shots and they are back in the bush. Spotlighting is the same. See a dozen sets of eyes, shoot 2 and the rest are gone. The only way you will reduce numbers is through 1080 or aerial shooting. But there lies the issue. I spoke to the owner about it. He wants the deer gone but the expense of a chopper to basically search and destroy without the return of selling the deer is financially unviable. So the deer thrive. We shoot a few. Nothing changes.
Just my experiences. But multiply this by god knows how many farms (forgetting about public land) and there are significant issues.

Choppers and Petfood chillers for ground hunters.

Some highly prized trophy areas like the Otago and Rakaia herd need some level of management plan.

Originally Posted by Ben Waimata

This is exactly what the issue is. What you are saying is 100% reasonable and rational, but possibly totally incompatible with the guy down the road with a native plant restoration project going. How to reconcile these two goals is beyond me.




So maybe the guy farming down the road from @Yesmate does not want deer and gets you in to shoot them. But poor old Yesmate has been watching one great stag and letting him get just a few months older, then you find this animal on the neighbouring farm and shoot him, and all the other deer Yesmate wants to protect for his hunting. See where the conflict arises? It does not work on a farm to farm basis, only on a district-wide basis. I've mentioned here already my desire to be deer-free, but there is a guy down the road who is allegedly deliberately releasing fallow. How do we reconcile this?

yep its a niggly issue alright,i don't believe there is actually a solution for all.and as mentioned above they are transient buggers they just go where the sweetest food is and then clear off not to be seen again for a while,there's no chance of nailing a mob of them as they just split after a shot or 2.I totally think the first lockdown(in the roar)has pretty much caused this issue,numbers were already high but now they are off the charts.iv never seen wild deer mobbing up in 30-50 herds before until recently.think about it every single hind would have got it during that roar and I dunno about stag numbers that roughly get shot during a standard roar,20-30%?but they all got to live as well.

There is one single common block to the isssue of wild animal management throughout all this discussion. It is simply access and permissions. There is adequate technology and manpower available to use it once obtained.

Originally Posted by gilly

Interesting thread. Lots of great opinions based on practical experience.
My opinion is that aerial shooting is the only answer. There are just too many deer for private hunters to deal with. We have some fantastic hunters in the country. But the shear size of NZ’s back country makes it , plus practical consideration like jobs, families and other commitments, near impossible to keep numbers down.
In terms of private land it isn’t the holy grail many dream of. Don’t get me wrong access to these places are gold. You get plenty of deer. But…here’s my experience for what it’s worth. I have access to a sheep and cattle station. It is over run with deer. Often mobs of 40-50 are seen. However they aren’t stupid. They bugger off the minute you accidentally spook a mob of sheep. If you do get on to them a couple of shots and they are back in the bush. Spotlighting is the same. See a dozen sets of eyes, shoot 2 and the rest are gone. The only way you will reduce numbers is through 1080 or aerial shooting. But there lies the issue. I spoke to the owner about it. He wants the deer gone but the expense of a chopper to basically search and destroy without the return of selling the deer is financially unviable. So the deer thrive. We shoot a few. Nothing changes.
Just my experiences. But multiply this by god knows how many farms (forgetting about public land) and there are significant issues.

You are onto it.
Mate with a thermal sees dozens all over the place. Open up on them though, and you'll be lucky to get two-three of them. They are not silly.

Animals are driven by food. Pressure is a deterrent and it can be used to concentrate them for various management options. Access ( eg for shooters) will create pressure by ocking access to food and by creating a tenuous environment.
It's simple really; just need to remove vested interests and bureacrats and their job protections on public lands and agencies and create enforceable managed population limits on private lands. A long term national comittment to actual game management is the prerequisit.

Maybe I'm wrong but having read the link it sounded like deer were coming out of public land, rather than have a go at the farmers surrounding the public why not get in there at the source an shoot them?
The Ruahines are crawling with deer that are so hungry there coming out onto farm land, as has been said we the hunters need to start just shooting whatever we see even if to waste just get numbers under control.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by gilly

Interesting thread. Lots of great opinions based on practical experience.
My opinion is that aerial shooting is the only answer. There are just too many deer for private hunters to deal with. We have some fantastic hunters in the country. But the shear size of NZ’s back country makes it , plus practical consideration like jobs, families and other commitments, near impossible to keep numbers down.
In terms of private land it isn’t the holy grail many dream of. Don’t get me wrong access to these places are gold. You get plenty of deer. But…here’s my experience for what it’s worth. I have access to a sheep and cattle station. It is over run with deer. Often mobs of 40-50 are seen. However they aren’t stupid. They bugger off the minute you accidentally spook a mob of sheep. If you do get on to them a couple of shots and they are back in the bush. Spotlighting is the same. See a dozen sets of eyes, shoot 2 and the rest are gone. The only way you will reduce numbers is through 1080 or aerial shooting. But there lies the issue. I spoke to the owner about it. He wants the deer gone but the expense of a chopper to basically search and destroy without the return of selling the deer is financially unviable. So the deer thrive. We shoot a few. Nothing changes.
Just my experiences. But multiply this by god knows how many farms (forgetting about public land) and there are significant issues.

But how did that property that you hunt get to that point in the first place? Deer don't just explode overnight infact quite the contrary. Most of the time it is someone protecting them at some stage.
As for the owner wanting the deer gone but not being able to afford it. Well if you do the maths it doesn't take long to figure out roughly how much in savings they will make in regards to crop damage and hundreds of stock units worth of deer competing with farm animals for tucker they will save by removing some deer.
I do pest control professionally and I have yet to meet a landowner who was disappointed from spending money getting deer removed.

As for places like the Ruahines. Well the Battle for Our Birds has significantly reduced the numbers in 30000 odd hectares of the northern end. Throughout some of it the numbers now are rather low. With the pattern of an aerial drop approximately every two years for potentially a very long time, the numbers are always going to be low.
So you have the rest of the Ruahines. Throughout some of it the numbers are moderate and in other spots the numbers are far too high. But, when, not if, when the venison prices go back up they will get absolutely slaughtered. As it stood before the prices dropped some of the operators were getting 90% of the deer they saw at the start of the 6 month season. So no matter what at some point recreational hunters will lose out again.
But there are no fly zones in the Ruahines and I do agree with the likes of BRADS there, recreational hunters should be taking lead and removing as many hinds as they can.

You'll be surprised to know that sometimes the professional ground cullers are getting more than the choppers in some instances too in regards to price per head

Originally Posted by TLB

But how did that property that you hunt get to that point in the first place? Deer don't just explode overnight infact quite the contrary. Most of the time it is someone protecting them at some stage.
As for the owner wanting the deer gone but not being able to afford it. Well if you do the maths it doesn't take long to figure out roughly how much in savings they will make in regards to crop damage and hundreds of stock units worth of deer competing with farm animals for tucker they will save by removing some deer.
I do pest control professionally and I have yet to meet a landowner who was disappointed from spending money getting deer removed.

As for places like the Ruahines. Well the Battle for Our Birds has significantly reduced the numbers in 30000 odd hectares of the northern end. Throughout some of it the numbers now are rather low. With the pattern of an aerial drop approximately every two years for potentially a very long time, the numbers are always going to be low.
So you have the rest of the Ruahines. Throughout some of it the numbers are moderate and in other spots the numbers are far too high. But, when, not if, when the venison prices go back up they will get absolutely slaughtered. As it stood before the prices dropped some of the operators were getting 90% of the deer they saw at the start of the 6 month season. So no matter what at some point recreational hunters will lose out again.
But there are no fly zones in the Ruahines and I do agree with the likes of BRADS there, recreational hunters should be taking lead and removing as many hinds as they can.

You'll be surprised to know that sometimes the professional ground cullers are getting more than the choppers in some instances too in regards to price per head

I respect your views as a professional hunter. You know what you are talking about.
You’ve raised some good points here. From what I can gather the deer moved in from an adjoining station and huge private forestry that had a no shooting policy. As the tucker ran out the deer moved. Apparently it happened pretty quickly according to the owner.
In terms of the cost in terms of eating crops and grass. Yes huge. They have deer fenced a significant part of the property to keep deer out.

Lord knows I try to do the whole shoot every deer that moves however not all of us are that good!

well I NORMALLY shoot the first deer I see...then carry it home to my freezer...I call that hunting/harvesting.... wallabies and hares I will shoot and leave,but deer/chammy/pigs all get ride home for dinner at my place.....so far I havent seen the rampaging hordes of feral animals..needless to say but when I DO then I will change how I HUNT....

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

well I NORMALLY shoot the first deer I see...then carry it home to my freezer...I call that hunting/harvesting.... wallabies and hares I will shoot and leave,but deer/chammy/pigs all get ride home for dinner at my place.....so far I havent seen the rampaging hordes of feral animals..needless to say but when I DO then I will change how I HUNT....

yeah mate, you'll be bringing home the first 10 deer you see