Thread: Nelson Lakes getting the Green rain over 33000ha in July...better get into it.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

The unfortunate thing with that linked study is that there is no science. Kea nest high, high above the range of cats and rats and stoats. There is no prey up in the rocks to attract predators, so the Kea nest unmolested until poisoned. I am sure that a bush area with only rock outcrops for nesting can be found for the purpose of justifying predation numbers, to that end the 'study' doesn't say where the nests where that were monitored but I bet they weren't way above the bushline.

Wrong. See distribution and habitat, second paragraph where kea nest.
Kea | New Zealand Birds Online

Tell rock wren that stoats dont eat there nests. Now they live above the bushline and nest above the bush line.

Rock wren | New Zealand Birds Online

I know a guy that traps up in Arthurs Pass and he was telling me a few months ago the last stoat he caught was right in the sub alpine scrub. It is also thought that invasion of valleys can occur when stoats come right over the tops not only up the valley floors.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

The unfortunate thing with that linked study is that there is no science. Kea nest high, high above the range of cats and rats and stoats. There is no prey up in the rocks to attract predators, so the Kea nest unmolested until poisoned. I am sure that a bush area with only rock outcrops for nesting can be found for the purpose of justifying predation numbers, to that end the 'study' doesn't say where the nests where that were monitored but I bet they weren't way above the bushline.

I have seen a stoat crossing the St Arnaud range well up in the tussock above the bush line (over 1500m) so they do leave the bush. Like most animals they will go wherever the food source is.

Regardless of ones opinion on 1080 drops, I think it is fair to say that DOC's communication of such matters is atrocious.

There is no way that any of us should be finding things like this out on facebook. I am not a facebook user so without @veitnamcam text or @deer243 posting here i would still be unaware of it. (Thanks for that guys, keep it up )

Considering I currently hold a possum trapping permit for parts of the area and a hunting permit both issued by DOC & I ticked the box asking to be emailed alerts for "temporary closures, culling operations or other alerts". Where was my email informing me of this?

After all not all of us want to chain ourselves to trees or sit atop a mountain to stop such things. As effected parties I think it would be decent of them to inform us.

As an aside....as mentioned by @Shearer above this area is heavily used by tourists. I stayed in the Sabine hut the night after lockdown with my son & we had the whole hut to ourselves. I had a look threw the hut book and out of the 50 entry's prior to lockdown 7 were from NZers



So while our country remains closed there may never be a better time to visit the likes of blue lake, Te Araroa trail, able tasman etc.

Find the places in your region that the tourists usually overrun and get amongst it

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Originally Posted by doinit

Still seems the odd chappy cant see through the fog,ah well maybe they've passed the point of no return just like DOC.

Yep DOC STANDS Door Open Closed

I was planning a trip back down soon to go to the blue lake for a look and hunt in that area, not now. When i was down there this year i didn't realize blue lake was in the same area, a i went to misery hut instead if i had know where blue lake was i would have gone there(maybe) really enjoyed my time down there and was looking forward to coming back down.
They want to think about dropping wasp bait at the same time.
12 months notice would be good i know we would have shoot a few more animals.

Originally Posted by sore head stoat

Wrong. See distribution and habitat, second paragraph where kea nest.
Kea | New Zealand Birds Online

Tell rock wren that stoats dont eat there nests. Now they live above the bushline and nest above the bush line.

Rock wren | New Zealand Birds Online

I know a guy that traps up in Arthurs Pass and he was telling me a few months ago the last stoat he caught was right in the sub alpine scrub. It is also thought that invasion of valleys can occur when stoats come right over the tops not only up the valley floors.

Not wrong, just the link doesn't list all the places they nest or explain how the cock bird guards the nest from predators. Annual mortality 36.8 % in the days prior to 1080. All the Kea on our farm when at Murchison were poisoned with 1080 - a group of about 12 birds that had been stable at that number for 20 years. There was one Kea sighted when I visited the old farm in 2019 and that is 15 years after the poison drop.
My Uncle shot and trapped hundreds of Kea in the upper Waimakariri in the 1960's with call and decoy birds for the bounty. Flocks of 20 - 30 were common and self sustaining despite culling. The official figures on Kea beaks (bounty) are local council figures but don't include private bounties paid. So 1080 kills a lot of bigger birds, Kea, Pigeons, Moreporks. Many pellets get hung up in trees where birds eat them without ground foraging.
The forest has improved remarkably with possums gone, but is silent.
Ask Dick Deaker about the Kea populations in Fiordland, comparing poisoned to un-poisoned valleys. It is a sad story

Nope ... read it again , quote "KEA NEST MAINLY WITHIN NATIVE FOREST" You said they are out of the range of cats rats and stoats... that is just plainly incorrect..

Maybe you should tell Mr and Mrs Kea that stoats and possums have not killed their chick ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgJjgHfwxwM

listen to the last sentence where he calls kea "birds of the forest"

Originally Posted by sore head stoat

Nope ... read it again , quote "KEA NEST MAINLY WITHIN NATIVE FOREST" You said they are out of the range of cats rats and stoats... that is just plainly incorrect..

Maybe you should tell Mr and Mrs Kea that stoats and possums have not killed their chick ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgJjgHfwxwM

listen to the last sentence where he calls kea "birds of the forest"






Kea might be call 'birds of the forest' but that doesn't make it so. If it were so there would be kea all through the forests of Mt Thomas and Mt Oxford right here 45 mins from you in ChCh instead of just occasional sightings

I confess I was shocked to see the possum predation. It cannot have been wide spread though as often there are good Kea populations alongside high possum numbers.
By 'range' I use the term to mean the area over which they search for food. If there is no food source up high above the bush why go there ? It doesn't make sense for a stoat or cat to check out the high rocky ground on the off chance that a Kea nest might be occasionally found. I will say though that two weeks ago I was surprised to have a stoat run up to me in the bush right at the upper bushline in the Harper Avoca.
So applying a bit of thought, we know that the annual mortality due to predation, (including stoats) shooting and natural causes was 36.8% pre 1080, that birds breed after three years old have several chicks in a clutch and can have two clutches a year as well as having a very long breeding life. Where are they and why do they not breed back after 1080 ?
Sore head stoat please do ph Dick Deaker.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Yes that circuit is very popular....it would seem almost any of them that get off track end up in a search and rescue or recovery operation.....at huge cost.

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They do and often, having been in Nelson SAR before moving south I can confirm rescues happen in there all the time, not all require SAR as often is just a helo pickup from the paraffin pigeon (air ambulance)

https://envirowatchrangitikei.wordpr...bntNlWUZincAwA

I’m not a fan of this particularly the way they use it but also a real eye opener is what is brought up at the end , for deer recovery the stand down period is 3 years where brodifacoum has been used , mean while farming practices continue even if the stuff has been used directly on the boundary fence or even on private land in bait stations with stock around , how is that possible.

Originally Posted by Boaraxa

https://envirowatchrangitikei.wordpr...bntNlWUZincAwA

I’m not a fan of this particularly the way they use it but also a real eye opener is what is brought up at the end , for deer recovery the stand down period is 3 years where brodifacoum has been used , mean while farming practices continue even if the stuff has been used directly on the boundary fence or even on private land in bait stations with stock around , how is that possible.

The 1080 gravy chain is huge,a thriving industry
And guess what? the powers that drive it along don't give a flying f*** about what harm is being done to good ol NZ,
private stock deaths,,who gives a toss,contaminated waterways,who gives a toss, bla'bla'bla.
It has been way out of control for a very long time.
Well that's my rant over,like many I've seen enough to do me for the rest of my days lol.

Yes but the point is all those farms with brodifacoum around or on should not be supplying stock or any other animal products for human consumption within 2ks of any poison for 3 years .

Originally Posted by Boaraxa

Yes but the point is all those farms with brodifacoum around or on should not be supplying stock or any other animal products for human consumption within 2ks of any poison for 3 years .

Yes that is correct but who's doing anything about it?
You know what happens when someone kicks up a stink in regards to poison.
Boaraxa there is just so much bad going on behind the scenes in regards to poison,they do their best ti keep it quiet.
They do not care,,end of story.

Would it not be better to use those without jobs now to trap the rats and not use that shit in our national parks . Havent doc been given shit loads in the budget so why not employ people

Because DoC policy is total extermination of any non native plant bird fish animal any non NZ native organism from national parks. They have made attempts in the padt to change the status of RHA's to Forest Parks with similar extrmination pilicies as apply to national parks as well. They proposed a few years ago to apply rotenone poison to waterways rising in national parks in order to exterminate trout and salmon. Changed their bloody minded plan when when it was pointed out to them that water actually flows downhill and out of national park bounaries into places like the Taupo fishery. They are host to people whose aim is to revert NZ to pre 1840 (treaty date) state. Reasoning and drivers? I leave to your deductive senses.