Thread: New record, strange head

I dont see 1000 SCI score. The main beam is measured from the coronet and the other tynes from where they initiate from that main beam.

This link to Foveran Deer Park has many sire stags shown. Click on the stag and it's pedigree and SCI score and velvet weights (if it has been cut for velvet) will show.https://www.foverandeerpark.co.nz/sire-stags.html
The stags at the bottom are past sire stags and at the top the most recent, some being very young

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

no its not disease of infection - its in breeding at its worst mixed highly likely with a lot of supplements - let out of intense breeding farm into a larger paddock night before - now I understand they get these stags into darkroom while they are growing out their velvet and stuff supplements down their throat - could be way to much calcium or similar sparked massive growth spurt during velvet growth to produce such a monstrosity dont know - or just great feed and line breeding - there are hunters from overseas who demand free range fair chase others dont care - I know of one stag shot in a holding paddock alongside darkroom by client with a bow - yup hunted this down in nooozeland (excuse accent)- my guide mate said one did have to work bloody hard to satisfy clients - client would be sucking on a cold one in lodge after shooting stag just on dark - him and his mate are out sweating up a storm getting a 400lb stag out complete with head so client can pose with it in morning - sometimes midnight or worse before getting home - and then up at 4 to do it all again - one just hopes they pay a lot and spend even more

I think its just genetics and good feed. As a general rule supplements dont work that way, the liver and kidneys are pretty efficient at removing excess minerals. Which is why its dubious taking health supplements for humans too.

It's bloody ugly as to me!

Originally Posted by whanahuia

I think its just genetics and good feed. As a general rule supplements dont work that way, the liver and kidneys are pretty efficient at removing excess minerals. Which is why its dubious taking health supplements for humans too.

okay- one hears these story's - true one - local breeder of Safari stags had huge red apparently near world record class - day before due to be trucked out to safari park to be dispatched by paying customer -rammed fence broken neck- $5 worth of dog tucker - was told $30,000 stag

its still in velvet.looks scruffy/skinny definately one of them Christmas tree heads.I often see smaller version on really young stags on deer farms,first two heads are similar shape before the hormones settle down..bit like breaking voice,pimples and constant boners if teenagers...which could well be the other option/answer to how the "breeder" got it to do this...MAYBE they injected hormones during early velvet growth stage??? sort of like athelete taking steroids to build muscle or trans gender "was a woman"trying to grow a beard.
a nice solid timbered 12 or classic 14 everyday of the week for me..hell a really solid 8 or 10 even. my late uncle Glen had a big 8 mounted,the timber above coronets was same size as a big boy beer bottle and he shot that close to 50 years back.

Each to their own I guess but fucking hideous is what I think

Fugly

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

okay- one hears these story's - true one - local breeder of Safari stags had huge red apparently near world record class - day before due to be trucked out to safari park to be dispatched by paying customer -rammed fence broken neck- $5 worth of dog tucker - was told $30,000 stag

Near world record class stags go for way more tham $30k, like add another $200k to it. Ridiculous money, but hey thats what the client wants, and knows that its been bred for the sole purpose of being shot in a high fence situation. A couple of years ago, research showed that high end hunting clients add by far the highest return for any inbound tourist to NZ. With little or no impact on the roading, the environment etc etc. Best type of client to have, very few of them, but paying substantial money for the tourism experience.

Im told if you castrate a stag..he still grows antlers but its just a big velvet blob that doesnt harden????
so by giving additional hormones it might have opposite effect..one thing is for sure,in this modern mixed up world where boys will be boys and girls will be girls,except of course for Lola........ the medications are far more readily accessible,it would actually surprise me to find out it HASNT been tried.

I know these massive stags are not everyone's cup of tea. I agree that a nice wild 12 or 14 pointer red is the pinicle and a proper trophy. I love them too.

On the other hand I do like seeing what genetics can do with these stags. English red base, a bit of German red (brings in a bit of palmation) then add some eastern red for extra length. Follow this up with heaps and heaps of decent feed right on velveting time and next minute a giant head is produced. I've researched thr trophy market and no steroids are used in NZ. (@Moa Hunter can correct me)

Pays to look at the whole Industry. Genetics were first done for production of velvet to boost your income so instead of a 7 year old stag producing say 7kg a few years back at the beginning of the velvet industry a 7 year old stag now would be double that now of say 14+kg of velvet.

Then the trophy market started up and wanted these huge velvet stags in full maturity so this set the genetics going to grow even bigger heads, and with rich overseas guys willing to pay more and more the SCI scores have gone up.

Got told once that the deer market was like a builder building houses. The average bloke is happy with a good solid 3 or 4 bedroom house, but then the rich want 20 bedrooms with a bathroom each and 6 car garaging and 3 entertaining areas. Same with the trophy deer market.

The animal in question will be of predominantly 'Woburn Abbey' breeding with that antler style.
These animals from 'Black Forest' stud are more traditional heads. Click on each sire http://blackforest.co.nz/sires/trophy/

Originally Posted by Billbob

On the other hand I do like seeing what genetics can do with these stags.

No dig mate, but this is exactly how the wolf was turned into a pug - selective breeding, years of inbreeding.....and now we have a category in dog shows that would never have been contemplated.

As Billbob has said, firstly genetic's - these stags have been bred using the genetics that give them the head the market wants. And a good velvet head is not necessarily a good trophy head. And the best thing to gain good sized heads regardless of how they look is feed, lots of good feed while they are growing their velvet. Hormones dont do diddly squat and aren't used in the NZ deer industry.

Actually I think I did a presentation during my undergrad degree on antler growth. Fastest growing tissue there is and super chokka full of growth factor.

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

no its not disease of infection - its in breeding at its worst mixed highly likely with a lot of supplements - let out of intense breeding farm into a larger paddock night before - now I understand they get these stags into darkroom while they are growing out their velvet and stuff supplements down their throat - could be way to much calcium or similar sparked massive growth spurt during velvet growth to produce such a monstrosity dont know - or just great feed and line breeding - there are hunters from overseas who demand free range fair chase others dont care - I know of one stag shot in a holding paddock alongside darkroom by client with a bow - yup hunted this down in nooozeland (excuse accent)- my guide mate said one did have to work bloody hard to satisfy clients - client would be sucking on a cold one in lodge after shooting stag just on dark - him and his mate are out sweating up a storm getting a 400lb stag out complete with head so client can pose with it in morning - sometimes midnight or worse before getting home - and then up at 4 to do it all again - one just hopes they pay a lot and spend even more

100% It isn't hunting.