Thread: Newshub attacking Sika

@Maxx Sean Husheer is one of the people quoted in the article

"To get regeneration in places like Kaweka Forest Park, deer numbers need to be lowered really, really low in the vicinity of one deer per square kilometre, and we found there is at least four deer per square kilometre in Kaweka Forest Park," said forest ecologist Sean Husheer.

That’s probably partly true.
The biggest reason deer are out of control is simply that they are not worth money I’d say

Gerald Telfords article on Tahr in the latest NZ Hunter mag is a good example on so called numbers of game animals established in a area , in reality no one had any idea really then or now how many there is .

I dont think there is a easy magic solution here for every one ,we as hunters want enough deer to hunt , that are in good condition which in turn produces good heads , and not to many to be detrimental to the Forest and fauna , tricky balancing act that is different in every location for sure , I guess if you are seeing mobs of deer where ever you hunt you probably need to be shooting a few more even if you leave some meat on the hill.

It’s a shame the Heli trips are so expensive now , but what isn’t I guess , Air Charter Taupo was an affordable way to get into the Kawekas , was a real loss when they shut the doors .

The likelihood of culling being undertaken in both the Kawekas and a Ruahines is relatively high. The budget is there.

Is it a bad thing?
No!
Is it new?
No!
The Kawekas have had culling undertaken before. After the first round management at DoC had a bit of a reshuffle from memory and a 'hinds only ' policy was implemented. It was successful, we got beech regeneration. DoC teamed up with one of the hunting mags and all of the stag sightings, animals shot and areas that were identified as having higher animal densities that recreational hunters should try target were all mapped.

It didn't take an excessive amount of deer being removed to make a difference. One of my favourite spots we used to frequently see upwards of 30 deer for a weekend. After the culling we would see half a dozen or so. Still plenty to go around.

We owe it to the deer and the environment to reduce the numbers a bit. This winter I shot a few sika that were so skinny they didn't even have the energy to run away. Starving to death. As has been pointed out, every area is different. Some can sustain higher animal numbers and just because an area might appear not to be crawling with deer, some of that beech country is scarce in feed and can't actually sustain a high deer numbers but the carrying capacity is still to high which is detrimental to the environment. Other areas the deer numbers are not too high at all.

Once the animal numbers are reduced then it is up to the recreational hunters to prove that they can manage deer and take the opportunity to try keep the population stable.

One cannot argue with deer numbers on the rise and consequently in order to sustain that deer population growth, basic logic is they must eat so there is always going to be a causation effect on flora.

I've hunted both Kaimanawas and Kawekas on private/public land. The contrast between a heavily hunted area like Clements road in the Kaimanawas versus Ngaawapurua as an example with little hunting pressure in Kawekas is strikingly different. More vegetation/regeneration at Clements with some evidence of browsing, compared to open areas (200m+ under canopy) with little new vegetation in places in Kawekas.

Both the Kaimanawas and Kawekas I have observed fenced off Ecological Areas for research. Its astonishing when you take the time to look and study these fenced areas and compare the difference to what is or not growing in the surrounding area.

There is no silver bullet to this issue, but it will involve all stakeholders to work collaboratively together to manage and maintain deer populations in the future. That in itself is the challenging part having all interested parties collectively agree on a plan going forward.

Ive suggested it before... instead of bombing country with 1080 to reduce animal population to levels where land can carry them via enough plant growth....... drop super on ridge lines and increase the plant growth.....lol would sure make some interesting hunting if you knew good growth will be in certain areas .... but yeah the $$$$$$ have to come from somewhere....pity we cant pump dairy farm effluent up to hill tops to do it..the greenies have been saying for years our forests are lacking as the sea birds no longer fly up and poop there....so replacing bird poop with cow poop would seem to be a win win for the forests...

Originally Posted by NIMROD

Fact..... a good straight up and down friend of mine, who shall be nameless, ( but he owned an R44 ) kept some facts and figures of how many deer his clients shot in the Kaweka's each year, mainly to try and convince DOC that their ridiculous landing fees were counter productive, but he also researched and recorded the weight of boned out Sika that were brought out of the Kaweka's by his clients, and the average weight was 7 Kg over all the age groups and sexes. That's not a misprint.

That same friend also used to say that 90% of the deer are shot by 10% of the hunters, I think there is a lot of truth in that also.

Opening up public access into the Kaimanawa / Kaweka would certainly help, Just look at the access of the desert road.

They could also look at incentive's for hunters like what was trialed in the Kaimanawa a few years ago for jaws and other offally bits

Eliminating the landing fees using DOC landing sites is one thing, if the DOC reduced the heli operators concessions fees that would really make a big difference in the costs involved to fly into these sites & target deer numbers in harder to access spots.

I hunt the Kawekas a fair bit and have been to most of it - Yep in places there are too many deer, but in others the evidence i'm seeing points to a healthy forest that can sustain the (local) population of deer present.

I get that everyone wants an 8 pointer, but if we don't all do our bit for conservation the park will get 1080'd or have aerial culling again!

Rusky, there are silver bullets. I used Winchester in 7mm08 to great effect on sika (and werewolves). Can't wait to help reduce the numbers in 7 days time.... (of both)

Originally Posted by Rusky

[COLOR="#D3D3D3"][COLOR="#FFFF00"]There is no silver bullet to this issue, but it will involve all stakeholders to work collaboratively together to manage and maintain deer populations in the future. That in itself is the challenging part having all interested parties collectively agree on a plan going forward.

there is also silver cases..nickle plated ones LOL.... mate also had 7mm/08 and also called them warewolf rounds....they are slightly easier to find on ground than brass finished ones.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

there is also silver cases..nickle plated ones LOL.... mate also had 7mm/08 and also called them warewolf rounds....they are slightly easier to find on ground than brass finished ones.

They are Winchester brass, with slightly greater internal powder volume than most other brands of brass

Does anyone know how successful the Nelson Lakes Ungulate control program has been? This seems like a great way of allowing recreational hunters in to areas that are difficult/time consuming to access, with a firm goal of reducing numbers. Sounds like there were a few issues with Waro hitting it in the weeks leading up, and a few admin problems, but interested why this model isn't introduced elsewhere. Even with incentives, like bring us X number of tails/jaws, and we'll reimburse X% of your flight costs. Gotta be cheaper than paying a Waro operator to be in the air for long hours. Sure some punters will find a a way to game the system, but on the whole, you would think it would work well. I'd certainly throw a couple of weeks of leave and a few boxes of ammo at it!

Originally Posted by yeah_na_missed

Does anyone know how successful the Nelson Lakes Ungulate control program has been? This seems like a great way of allowing recreational hunters in to areas that are difficult/time consuming to access, with a firm goal of reducing numbers. Sounds like there were a few issues with Waro hitting it in the weeks leading up, and a few admin problems, but interested why this model isn't introduced elsewhere. Even with incentives, like bring us X number of tails/jaws, and we'll reimburse X% of your flight costs. Gotta be cheaper than paying a Waro operator to be in the air for long hours. Sure some punters will find a a way to game the system, but on the whole, you would think it would work well. I'd certainly throw a couple of weeks of leave and a few boxes of ammo at it!

Don't know but did see some maps of where a hell of a lot of deer were taken out by the helicopters before the blocks were opened up. It was also trialled in the Lake Sumner area too

Originally Posted by Sika 8

Opening up public access into the Kaimanawa / Kaweka would certainly help, Just look at the access of the desert road.

They could also look at incentive's for hunters like what was trialed in the Kaimanawa a few years ago for jaws and other offally bits

Eliminating the landing fees using DOC landing sites is one thing, if the DOC reduced the heli operators concessions fees that would really make a big difference in the costs involved to fly into these sites & target deer numbers in harder to access spots.

I hunt the Kawekas a fair bit and have been to most of it - Yep in places there are too many deer, but in others the evidence i'm seeing points to a healthy forest that can sustain the (local) population of deer present.

I get that everyone wants an 8 pointer, but if we don't all do our bit for conservation the park will get 1080'd or have aerial culling again!

now I am not disagreeing with you - but we need as hunters to watch our backs and be prepared to battle - we do not do enough to advance our cause - 1080 DOC cannot use it on deer at present - their own policy's prevent that - lets keep it like that - but what is happening time and again - it seems to me is hunters lose the argument because we are to slow to react - access is closed - we as hunters to slow before we react job done and access gone greenies and yes bloody mean landowner etc got in first and another access gone - yes I will say it DOC need a huge kick up the arse the way they have treated us hunters - the odd area Manager is pro hunting but in genersal they dont do enough for NZ hunters -lets hope this new govt change things - what we need is links on this forum to give us the oppoutunity to put our views foward

Scotland is going through the same thing with deer numbers being to high, but they are pushing for the population to be 10 deer per sq km. I wonder why the ecologists here are pushing for the the population to be so much lower here.