Thread: Newshub attacking Sika

Originally Posted by yeah_na_missed

Does anyone know how successful the Nelson Lakes Ungulate control program has been? This seems like a great way of allowing recreational hunters in to areas that are difficult/time consuming to access, with a firm goal of reducing numbers. Sounds like there were a few issues with Waro hitting it in the weeks leading up, and a few admin problems, but interested why this model isn't introduced elsewhere. Even with incentives, like bring us X number of tails/jaws, and we'll reimburse X% of your flight costs. Gotta be cheaper than paying a Waro operator to be in the air for long hours. Sure some punters will find a a way to game the system, but on the whole, you would think it would work well. I'd certainly throw a couple of weeks of leave and a few boxes of ammo at it!

Don't know but did see some maps of where a hell of a lot of deer were taken out by the helicopters before the blocks were opened up. It was also trialled in the Lake Sumner area too

Scotland is going through the same thing with deer numbers being to high, but they are pushing for the population to be 10 deer per sq km. I wonder why the ecologists here are pushing for the the population to be so much lower here.

Doc need to drop the landing fees, lower the concession fees and pay $200 per jaw taken out of the area.
Good incentive for hunters to pull finger.

Originally Posted by Tahr

The lower Rangitikei has always been a high population area. Back in the late 70's early 80's the Makorako and Ecology areas were severely depleted by a high sika population and there was a sika die back as a consequence. Cam Speedy has spent a lot of time studying the Beech collapse and sika die back in there.

Subsequently DOC periodically opened up a heli pad in the Ecology remote experience zone to aid control through rec hunters. The Sika Foundation seem to have taken this over now https://sikafoundation.co.nz and manage 2 sites in the Ecology and one up on the Thunderbolt. The Rangatikei faces are easily accessible from the Thunderbolt. The Ecology is a really neat place to hunt.

I expect that you would be just shooting rats though. They were pretty awful when I hunted in there.

Edit. The headwaters of the Ecology are nice. I used to get dropped off near the saddle between the Makorako tribs and the Ecology but no one will drop you there now.

The question is why not? It seems to be a lock everyone out(hunters) and then scream deer numbers are eating the forest, two tonne trees and all.

On the topic off Helisika - all the private blocks are about money. Whether that is the iwi or DOC or helisika I don't know but if you look at the landing fee, plus the fee per night per person on top of the helicopter fee and then add in to the equation the fact that its generally only one animal per person and one for the group its no wonder people don't go there (me included - bloody rip off) and no wonder there's too many deer.

Its been said a few times over as I've scrolled through these pages. Rec hunters just don't shoot enough. People need to get comfortable with shooting to waste and not being so precious about the seasons and what the hinds are doing in that season. Mountain lions don't give a shit about the fawns, nor do bears or wolves. Obviously this is very location dependant and some places don't need this attitude.

The problem then continues where the actual reality IMO is that even if more rec hunters did what I said above, it still won't be enough. Just listen to the deer wars podcast and how full time ground cullers still did not dent the overall deer population. Yes the population then was higher therefor the reproductive cycle was higher but if you compared how many the cullers shot in comparison to the population id hazard a guess that on a percentage basis it works out not far off our current population and what rec hunters would/could shoot (although still probably less).

The stark reality is that we need a legitimate management plan by area for the country and it needs funding and resourcing with a mutual understanding from all parties. Something that strikes that balance for each individual ecosystem and herd where the deer are good and healthy and so is the environment they live in. We are making great progress in getting here, the FWF leading the charge and the Sika Foundation doing some great work too. The missing link is that understanding from the top that drives everything across the country.

Originally Posted by stagstalker

On the topic off Helisika - all the private blocks are about money. Whether that is the iwi or DOC or helisika I don't know but if you look at the landing fee, plus the fee per night per person on top of the helicopter fee and then add in to the equation the fact that its generally only one animal per person and one for the group its no wonder people don't go there (me included - bloody rip off) and no wonder there's too many deer.

Its been said a few times over as I've scrolled through these pages. Rec hunters just don't shoot enough. People need to get comfortable with shooting to waste and not being so precious about the seasons and what the hinds are doing in that season. Mountain lions don't give a shit about the fawns, nor do bears or wolves. Obviously this is very location dependant and some places don't need this attitude.

The problem then continues where the actual reality IMO is that even if more rec hunters did what I said above, it still won't be enough. Just listen to the deer wars podcast and how full time ground cullers still did not dent the overall deer population. Yes the population then was higher therefor the reproductive cycle was higher but if you compared how many the cullers shot in comparison to the population id hazard a guess that on a percentage basis it works out not far off our current population and what rec hunters would/could shoot (although still probably less).

The stark reality is that we need a legitimate management plan by area for the country and it needs funding and resourcing with a mutual understanding from all parties. Something that strikes that balance for each individual ecosystem and herd where the deer are good and healthy and so is the environment they live in. We are making great progress in getting here, the FWF leading the charge and the Sika Foundation doing some great work too. The missing link is that understanding from the top that drives everything across the country.

The disconnect at the top is on the right track now(in my opinion) although there is still a lot to do.
I see one of the major issue being ill informed recreational hunters who have no idea about sensible game management. They class any research effort as "DOC driven".
I've always been a supporter of the Sika Foundations jaw programme. When I've tried to encourage hunters to collect jaws the response has often been "DOC will just use the information against us, why would I give those..... s anything".
A lot of hunters are too one eyed to anything but their own opinion.
I admit to being part of the problem. I have issues with leaving deer to rot. I would never shoot a hind which I knew had a young fawn. Leaving a fawn to starve to death is not a lot different to poisoning it in my opinion.
I have no problem with shooting a hind before she drops. At least the fawn dies quickly.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

The disconnect at the top is on the right track now(in my opinion) although there is still a lot to do.
I see one of the major issue being ill informed recreational hunters who have no idea about sensible game management. They class any research effort as "DOC driven".
I've always been a supporter of the Sika Foundations jaw programme. When I've tried to encourage hunters to collect jaws the response has often been "DOC will just use the information against us, why would I give those..... s anything".
A lot of hunters are too one eyed to anything but their own opinion.
I admit to being part of the problem. I have issues with leaving deer to rot. I would never shoot a hind which I knew had a young fawn. Leaving a fawn to starve to death is not a lot different to poisoning it in my opinion.
I have no problem with shooting a hind before she drops. At least the fawn dies quickly.

For sure. Even though it’s my point, I don’t like it. But in the absence of an actual management plan the onus is on rec hunters to do as much as they can, but, with too many ethical boundaries, rec hunters will continue to not do enough. I don’t hunt much over summer which makes it simpler for me as I don’t really encounter the dilemma often but last summer I got onto a hind who had a fawn so I shot them both. Didn’t enjoy shooting the fawn but bugger me the hind was in poor condition - a result of too many animals which proved my decision right. Shot a hind the other day, luckily yet to drop so got two for one easily. I’m definitely guilty of not doing more myself at times though, the same ethical boundaries holding me back.

I have a wonderful idea , Why don't we as Hunters create a solution to the problem of too many deer .
All WE need to do is when we go hunting in an area with too many deer we just tell everyone else where that area is and Hee presto as Hunters we can reduce the numbers so that there will be no need for "Green Rain " or Cullers .
How about it , who wants to be first ????????.

Originally Posted by Tankd

I have a wonderful idea , Why don't we as Hunters create a solution to the problem of too many deer .
All WE need to do is when we go hunting in an area with too many deer we just tell everyone else where that area is and Hee presto as Hunters we can reduce the numbers so that there will be no need for "Green Rain " or Cullers .
How about it , who wants to be first ????????.

if you look back through the thread...3-4 folks have already done so

kentucky fried fawn leg is DEVINE tucker...... just use the chicken recipe..... I will shoot fawns any chance I get as great eating.

But according to lots of people guns are wicked none should have them ,take them off those whose desire is to use them legitimately .oh hang on our forests are overrun with deer and noones doing anything .anyone see the irony there. this question of deer control was round when Adam was CEO of internal affairs deer cullers and its never gone away despite the billions of .303 and assorted other rounds thrown at it .excuse me for being a cynic ,but it seems ma nature weill probably provide her cure in her time .Im not denigrating the efforts of recreational shooters,merely musing. Denying access to vast tracts of native scrub and forest simply means its a club med for deer who breed unchecked and prolifically before overunning that which is accessible to shooters . in effect corporations individuals and vested interests contribute to the problem albeit unwittingly or otherwise.