Thread: Northland deer (again)

Originally Posted by Tahr

keeping deer out of northland is probably the hardest one to argue against.

Why are we special?

because they think they can have Northland deer free - except for the fallow herd South head ( well protected by landowners )

Originally Posted by Husky1600#2

"DoC’s Northern North Island director Sue Reed-Thomas said although Northland’s population of wild deer was small and scattered, immediate action was important as the animals have the potential to breed rapidly when food is abundant"

What a load of utter BS! Deer cant breed any more "rapidly" than the once per year. If that was possible the deer industry would be all over it improve their annual fawning rates, to increase production.

One offspring per year, no non-human predators and sexual maturity after a year or two is pretty rapid.

Originally Posted by Waitati Hunter

One offspring per year, no non-human predators and sexual maturity after a year or two is pretty rapid.

Not when compared to the likes of goats, pigs, etc.

Originally Posted by MB

Why are we special?

I would like to hear the argument that says you aren't. Just about every bit of deer related legislation and district/regional plan says you are or should be.

The horse bolted every were else years ago and deer are now unmanaged or unmanageable. "They" aren't going to let that happen up your way.

Tahr is right powers that be see deer free Northland as feasible - with Auckland as a barrier - and Northland forests are seen as unique they are not the same composition as say lower North Island - many contain kauri - - good kiwi populations in areas - a number of iconic species including endemic carnivorous snails- and many tree species not seen south of Auckland - no sorry mate I think any idea of a shootable deer population up there is a pipe dream - in saying that there are more deer around up there than people think - very small populations and some likely not going anywhere - but they are there - but their number is up - the only thing saving them is many will not report where deer are - as hunters we have to face the fact that many twigs and tweeters don't like deer and don't value them like we do

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

because they think they can have Northland deer free - except for the fallow herd South head ( well protected by landowners )

Why does everyone think South Head is in Northland??? It's not!

There are a number of well protected sika herds on private land up here as well.

Originally Posted by Waitati Hunter

One offspring per year, no non-human predators and sexual maturity after a year or two is pretty rapid.

One off spring per year is no "more rapidly" than any other deer herd in NZ, hinds only cycle once a year, thats when we have the roar/rut. And sometimes, but not often, they will cycle again after the shortest day if they didnt get pregnant during the roar. And most deer mature for breeding when they are about 16 months old, or thereabouts. Theres nothing "more rapidly" about it, otherwise the roar would get earlier and earlier every year. However with more and better feed, more hinds may become pregnant when they cycle than in a lean year, and the population increase may be slightly more than other years. But then it may be lower in lean years to.

Originally Posted by MB

Just because I'm bored at work. This topic comes up every couple of years in the local media. $5.9 million to be spent. Opinions?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-...EV4AIOTGOVFBY/

As with al things it will be a case of dimishing returns....Same with rabbits which is why I see pest free 2050 as an unobtainable own goal...(if they thought they could get rid of all pests in 25 years we would have done it a hundred years ago ......)

They will make a dent in the population quickly and cheaply initially, but as the herd thins, it will become harder to locate...They may make a 20% reduction for the budget they are quoting, but that same amount of money will not get the same amount next time and when they get below 40% the budget per animal will skyrocket....

As mentioned in another post, while these are goals they want to obtain, there are other far more beneficial things the same money could be used for that will make a bigger difference....

Predator Free 2050 is a pipe dream. We all know that.

you are right timattalon they could if they wished to do more for kiwi in Northland just get a better handle on roaming dogs which have taken a lot of kiwi in Northland - and cats for other wildlife -but they get the idea of total eradication in their heads and so often that's just not realistic - pest free 2050 is a complete joke - from the Napier Taupo road up to the Motu River is hundreds of thousands of hectares of bush almost all without any control - and they are going to have that free of possums and rats and stoats yeah right

Originally Posted by Husky1600#2

One off spring per year is no "more rapidly" than any other deer herd in NZ, hinds only cycle once a year, thats when we have the roar/rut. And sometimes, but not often, they will cycle again after the shortest day if they didnt get pregnant during the roar. And most deer mature for breeding when they are about 16 months old, or thereabouts. Theres nothing "more rapidly" about it, otherwise the roar would get earlier and earlier every year. However with more and better feed, more hinds may become pregnant when they cycle than in a lean year, and the population increase may be slightly more than other years. But then it may be lower in lean years to.

You appear to be of the opinion that every hind will have a fawn every year regardless of the feed conditions they live in.
In some parts of the Kaimanawas where the area is over populated, only a small percentage of hinds have a fawn(search Cam Speedys research on this. Probably available on the Sika Foundation website).
Sika in Northland will be living in conditions with abundant feed.
They will have a higher fawning percentage than average. So they will be reproducing "more rapidly".

Originally Posted by MB

Predator Free 2050 is a pipe dream. We all know that.

Agreed. It's a pipe dream. But aspirational too. Its motivated an extraordinary number of people to make a huge effort. People who otherwise would never go into the trees. Its motivated thousands of elderly into exercise. It's advanced pest reduction technology and approaches. It's got people talking and thinking about pests. And killed a few zillion pests too. So far I think that it's been a stunning success.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Agreed. It's a pipe dream. But aspirational too. Its motivated an extraordinary number of people to make a huge effort. People who otherwise would never go into the trees. Its motivated thousands of elderly into exercise. It's advanced pest reduction technology and approaches. It's got people talking and thinking about pests. And killed a few zillion pests too. So far I think that it's been a stunning success.

Dead right Tahr.
I have a bit to do with the Sika Foundation Whio project.
Newby people come along with a friend and after a day on a trap line they are hooked.
And they often come from circles which wouldn't usually come across such projects.
Next thing their mates are coming too.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Agreed. It's a pipe dream. But aspirational too. Its motivated an extraordinary number of people to make a huge effort. People who otherwise would never go into the trees. Its motivated thousands of elderly into exercise. It's advanced pest reduction technology and approaches. It's got people talking and thinking about pests. And killed a few zillion pests too. So far I think that it's been a stunning success.

My main issue is a goal has to be measurable , and obtainable or it will stop being a goal and start becoming an anchor......this pest free is a goal that can be measured....success will mean NO pests at all - total eradication....however it is unobtainable....the problem here is wnow, no matter what success they have at reducing pest populations, they will be seen to have failed.

Dont get me wrong, I think the reductionand management of pests needs to be done, and what they are doing to achieve this in most cases is working, but at some point they will start to question what else they have to do to achieve their goals.....