Thread: Northland deer (again)

Originally Posted by Tahr

Agreed. It's a pipe dream. But aspirational too. Its motivated an extraordinary number of people to make a huge effort. People who otherwise would never go into the trees. Its motivated thousands of elderly into exercise. It's advanced pest reduction technology and approaches. It's got people talking and thinking about pests. And killed a few zillion pests too. So far I think that it's been a stunning success.

Well if I'm right the 2050 predator free isn't trapping only and involve bombing forest with the 1080 shit, this is far from my definition of a stunning success...

sorry Tahr me old china stunning success no what percentage of NZ has received treatment enough to say its a measurable success 3% 5% wont be any higher - and many of the areas are so small they will not sustain viable populations of a host of endemic species no we are failing and failing badly - the best we can hope for at present is a few intensively fenced and trapped " mainland islands " and off shore islands that will show what NZ was like - but 90% of NZ bush will likely remain either untreated or rarely treated

Originally Posted by tibo

Well if I'm right the 2050 predator free isn't trapping only and involve bombing forest with the 1080 shit, this is far from my definition of a stunning success...

It's a tool. Part of the mix. Useful in certain contexts like broad acre control, and the most successful with some pests - viz wallaby. In some contexts not so much. Hopefully in time it will be replaced with something more acceptable. Im not anti 1080 - but am anti its inappropriate use (which is getting less) - especially without deer repellent in the mix.

By 2025 regardless of the goal not having been achieved (an impossible goal) I think the new culture of bashing pests with every tool available and ordinary people taking responsibility ought to be well embedded and the struggle will have a life of its own. That will be a big positive.

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

sorry Tahr me old china stunning success no what percentage of NZ has received treatment enough to say its a measurable success 3% 5% wont be any higher - and many of the areas are so small they will not sustain viable populations of a host of endemic species no we are failing and failing badly - the best we can hope for at present is a few intensively fenced and trapped " mainland islands " and off shore islands that will show what NZ was like - but 90% of NZ bush will likely remain either untreated or rarely treated

Stunning to me is the advanced protection of iconic species and ordinary New Zealanders getting their gumboots on. Whio, Kaka etc. I like the positive vibes and new enthusiasm for conservation. Wapiti Foundation, Sika Trust, Local NZDA trap lines (the Orua) etc. They are us. Bugger being surrounded by negativity.

its funny in a way...some of us have said right from begining the only way it could possibly work IS IN small plots..wee islands of protected spots so birds have a safe haven where they are able to breed in peace....peninsulas being obvious option for fencing but just like islands you got to keep ahead of pests getting back in.
if the Africans hadnt put the likes of white rhinos behind wire years back they would be gone completely....a sustainable population anywhere is better than species gone completely with no show of ever increasing.

Pipe dream nah...

https://predatorfreesouthwestland.nz/

12000ha of some of the most rugged and remotest land in NZ predator free.

https://predatorfreesouthwestland.nz/

4min.20 where the fella says " I've watched kaka disappear ", what a horrible thing to have to say.., that's what negativity results in, extinction...

With the advance of AI in traps I truly believe we will only get better in catching the bad guys.. Imagine a trap that says nope you are a kea sticking your head where it shouldn't, but a few hours later a cat sticks its head in and the trap says yip, here is some bad news. In a few years time that same trap may only need to be serviced every 12 or 24 months, uses sounds to attract its targets ? The possibilities are endless.

We are currently only scratching the surface with our crude traps of today..

Originally Posted by MB

Predator Free 2050 is a pipe dream. We all know that.

Deer aren't predators though, pests in some eyes but not predators

Originally Posted by imaca

Deer aren't predators though

I don't think anyone suggested they were???

I agree that the vision of predator free 2050 will never be achieved, what it has done however is bring focus to the issue and there are large numbers of people including volunteers involve obtaining some awesome results.
The promotion of the idea has brought in a lot of people who would otherwise never been involved in predator eradication and is giving focus on some of the major issues we have in the wild.

I recently saw details of the feral cat numbers in some regions, a station where we hunt on record the number of feral cats, they kill each year and in the last calendar year it was over 500. They have a very simple trapping system which continues to work, but I couldn't believe the numbers. They do a lot of Wallaby control so this may assist with the cat numbers in regard to a food supply, but still large numbers. This shows the scale of the problem and how a population can expand rapidly, which is not surprising given that a litter of kittens is often 4 or more.

I have spoken in length to one of the senior people involved in the eradication of the Russell Forest Sika, he has a lot of experience in this line of control work and the program will give them the best opportunity to finally eradicate the herd, or the hinds, which are the main target. If you look at the full plan its comprehensive and I was surprised at the depth of information they had on the herd. I actually found it very interesting, and it changed my view on the success of the program.
I for one fully support the eradiation as these deer should never have been released.

Originally Posted by Tahr

The sika cull is being undertaken by a well known pest contractor who has the most modern high tech gear and a helicopter.

Of all of the threats we face to our sport, keeping deer out of northland is probably the hardest one to argue against. Emotional responses wont cut it. And I see that NZDA are keeping out of the argument - good job.

Any theories on how sika got established in Northland originally? Were sika being farmed up there?

https://www.gets.govt.nz/NRC/Externa...tm?id=27912047

Originally Posted by LOC

Any theories on how sika got established in Northland originally? Were sika being farmed up there?

https://www.doc.govt.nz/globalassets...cal/SFC212.pdf

Page 11. They were illegally liberated in an area where deer farming is prohibited.

Great info, thanks. Implies they were released roughly 30 years ago
I drove through the forest two weeks ago, it’s incredibly dense and steep, perfect for Sika to evade choppers and night vision

Originally Posted by MB

I don't think anyone suggested they were???

Its called predator free NZ but apparently includes possums, rabbits, goats and deer. While these are pests, they are not predators (despite DoCs photoshopping a possum with feathers in its mouth.....)

There are only two ways I can see that would actually get us to the end goal....and both are cases of cure is worse than the disease.

1) Bio control- Modifying a disease or similar to target a specific species. Sounds promising ....until you put thought into it....This is how we got mustilids (released to hunt rabbits which were their natural prey in the homeland - but quickly found our natives easier to catch and eat...) and how we nearly got mountain lions to control deer (until a local pointed out deer run faster than sheep and mountain lions have a hankering for easy mutton too...)
The real big problem with this genetic control however is much scarier than a new import. The hard part is getting a disease or similar to target a specific species such as possums. BUT once this is done, it is much much easier to alter it to target something else.....deer goats etc...now if it gets into the wrong hands you can add people to that list and you have changed a biological control into a WMD....And no one wants this.

2) total reset / clean slate- wipe out every living thing in an area the start again with a clean slate reintroducing the native flora and fauna making sure the undesirables stay out but lets face it, what we have now is already better than that solution......even with the pests...

What does really get my goat though is we have Tahr listed as a pest by the likes of twigs n tweets, but this population is probably the only healthy population of tahr left in the world.....If we get rid of them, they will likely be an endangered species as their current original population is in decline. Similar with possums....They are protected in Aussie....if Ozzie really wants them, they should come and get some- our population is healthy and thriving......

Originally Posted by LOC

Any theories on how sika got established in Northland originally? Were sika being farmed up there?

no they were trucked or well trailered up there - but even though we all like deer it was a silly thing to do- it was never going to end well