Thread: Not again!

Yep an experienced fuckwit is a real danger at all times.Unfortunately the goofy gene is present in these idiots...

An "inexperienced hunters" point of view.... I'd personally like to have the shooters mistake analysed and released just to get some kind of insight into how he made such a massive mistake, because that's what it must have been otherwise it's murder; and if he murdered the guy then this whole discussion is invalid. We all harp on about "inexperience", negligence, improper practice, poor practices etc but actually hearing what the guy did to fuck up so badly might help us all to not make the same mistake.

I am very inexperienced when it comes to public land roar hunting, something I was pretty keen to remedy this year...now, not so much. Previously I have passed up shooting opportunities at big and small animals because I couldn't guarantee 100% that it was safe. I'd hope that I'm not alone in that.

Good post Greig.

Originally Posted by Rushy

Good post Greig.

+1

Personally, I would like to know if there has been any meaningful study into such hunting accidents as a collective group, rather than each incident individually case by case. The obvious trends here are bush hunting during the roar by generally experienced multiple party groups.
It doesn't strike me as a competence issue with using the firearm as such either. This is an issue with rationalising the compulsion to shoot based on what's seen and heard when hunting. The decision making around taking the shot is key here.
Making this a firearms licencing issue is not necessarily the answer as we don't see the same kind of incidents in F-class, Alpine hunting, 3-gun, varmint hunting, small bore and such like.
Is it as simple as people just taking pot shots at glimpses and sounds of possible game? Or is there more at play here, where external and internal influences impair an individuals decision making. We know light, fatigue, expectation, eyesight, complacency, attitude, excitement and many other things will affect a persons decision making.
A manifesto discussing outcomes from previous incidents and lessons learnt would be highly beneficial.
Rule number four could be expanded upon. I'm in favour of the mantra to assume it's a person until all doubt is removed.
Broadly speaking, I believe that it is impossible to completely legislate accidents out of society, but raising everyone's personal standards and knowledge can only be a good thing for any given application. Above all else one must accept that this could happen to them.

On ya Moutere. Some well considered and balanced questions over the last couple of posts show that as a group we are capable of intelligent inward looking analysis of the tragic issue that we are all swept up in.

I had a massive reply written out but fuck it.
I'd like to no how others define a "experienced hunter"
I still think the problem lies in how many deer people shoot a year.
Should be noted I'm just a dumb farmer.



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Not sure about the how many deer, it could be a factor then again?

I'm interested to see what the lead up to each shooting incident was!
What where the triggers as Greg1605 was saying.
I have vasovagal which is a very interesting thing to have. Basically you pass out.
But there are triggers. Once you no what these triggers are you can deal with it....
Before I new what it was, I just used to think I had low blood sugar and fight like mad not to pass out, which is the worse thing you can do!
Now I get down on the floor as fast as I can and get my legs in the air. I know what those triggers are and can control the attacks!
Now the attacks I'm unlucky if I have one a year, where I used to have up to one a month!

I think if we know what each trigger was in the lead up to these shootings then we will have a better understanding.
Then we can say to our selves in the bush...hey X and Y has just happened to me be aware what is Z?
Experienced and inexperienced hunters can then use this knowledge to help minimise the risks of becoming the next living statistic!

Originally Posted by BRADS

I had a massive reply written out but fuck it.
I'd like to no how others define a "experienced hunter"
I still think the problem lies in how many deer people shoot a year.
Should be noted I'm just a dumb farmer.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You may be a farmer Brad's but you ain't dumb. You were smart enough to buy me Waikato and smart enough to pay for the shittiest piece of steak I have ever eaten. That not only makes you a genuine all around good bastard but it makes you a clever Trevor as well.

Lets see ya reply Brads?

Originally Posted by BRADS

I had a massive reply written out but fuck it.
I'd like to no how others define a "experienced hunter"
I still think the problem lies in how many deer people shoot a year.
Should be noted I'm just a dumb farmer.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe not so much how many deer, but more of a certain attitude, which would be... shoot anything... any deer. A deer is a deer kind of thing. Where as those that take enough time to see if a hind has a fawn that might die if the hind is shot. Or a type of hunter that looks deeper into what kind of deer there shooting would probably pay more attention. And be more aware.

I wouldn't mind picking the so called experienced hunter simply stems from the media reporting on roar accidental shootings.
Potentially it is a matter of opinion of the reporter or defense. Let's face it, media coverage is the most insight many of us get into these incidents.
I would certainly put my hand up as falling into this category.
How offen does the report read that the shooter was an experienced hunter and that the victim was from the same hunting party.

Originally Posted by Greig1605

An "inexperienced hunters" point of view.... I'd personally like to have the shooters mistake analysed and released just to get some kind of insight into how he made such a massive mistake, because that's what it must have been otherwise it's murder; and if he murdered the guy then this whole discussion is invalid. We all harp on about "inexperience", negligence, improper practice, poor practices etc but actually hearing what the guy did to fuck up so badly might help us all to not make the same mistake.

I am very inexperienced when it comes to public land roar hunting, something I was pretty keen to remedy this year...now, not so much. Previously I have passed up shooting opportunities at big and small animals because I couldn't guarantee 100% that it was safe. I'd hope that I'm not alone in that.

Originally Posted by Moutere

Personally, I would like to know if there has been any meaningful study into such hunting accidents as a collective group, rather than each incident individually case by case. The obvious trends here are bush hunting during the roar by generally experienced multiple party groups.
It doesn't strike me as a competence issue with using the firearm as such either. This is an issue with rationalising the compulsion to shoot based on what's seen and heard when hunting. The decision making around taking the shot is key here.
Making this a firearms licencing issue is not necessarily the answer as we don't see the same kind of incidents in F-class, Alpine hunting, 3-gun, varmint hunting, small bore and such like.
Is it as simple as people just taking pot shots at glimpses and sounds of possible game? Or is there more at play here, where external and internal influences impair an individuals decision making. We know light, fatigue, expectation, eyesight, complacency, attitude, excitement and many other things will affect a persons decision making.
A manifesto discussing outcomes from previous incidents and lessons learnt would be highly beneficial.
Rule number four could be expanded upon. I'm in favour of the mantra to assume it's a person until all doubt is removed.
Broadly speaking, I believe that it is impossible to completely legislate accidents out of society, but raising everyone's personal standards and knowledge can only be a good thing for any given application. Above all else one must accept that this could happen to them.

Both great posts guys, this pretty much sums it all up for me.

To say it shouldn't happen is right. But it does happen, and it happens to people that have tonnes of experience as well. Even deer callers and pro meat shooters have accidentally shot another hunter. And they hunted for a living.

Most people who have accidentally shot another hunter will state they were definitely looking at a deer. 100% sure. That's the weird thing about it.

I wonder whether in some cases the eyes see something and the brain fills the gaps in and turns it into what they want to see. It's a strange phenomena.

We have all seen those weird drawings where I see a duck and you see a rabbit. It's our our brains perceive things.

What this latest accident does is make me sit and consider hunting situations and ultimately what is required to positively identify and animal. Perhaps the biggest thing is to take your time? If it runs off go and find another.