Thread: the OFF TOPIC to Stags shot 21 (discussion of wild animal management)

Originally Posted by Happy Jack

Just watched the local WARO land in next doors paddock, couldn't see what he was doing but I know he has done no WARO work since April last year as his overseas buyer shut up shop.

He has been busy all roar flying hunters in and out sometimes up to 5 times a day.

Weird he landed in the neighbours paddock since his own is only 3 paddocks away.

Few gut piles up above the Carlyle so somebody locals working. But yes this year the general area got a hiding. I'd be surprised if even a 10th of animals shot by fly in hunters in that area where hinds. Plenty fo young stags shot.

Originally Posted by Stocky

Not sold, my qualms aren't with comfort they are with load through joints etc. I don't see it working well with bone removed. Sure it's fine for mellow semi open bush stuff but there's no way I'm putting a deer across sideways like that coming down a bush spur with no track that often are steep enough I'm already getting hung up by my pack. My pack carry weight well with the load shelf. I do enough dumb shit I don't need to be crippled by the time I'm 60. My father did stuff like this now there's not a hope in hell he'd hunt anywhere I do and he's still got 5 years to 60.

If your father had a Hereford Stud he would be injury free, it's those mad Angus that do the damage, dont blame it on carrying deer !
I often shoot deer right on dark and it is easier to whip the guts out and carry it back rather than trying to cut it up in the dark.
The 'Graf' frame will carry a cut up deer in a bag. Thats what I did with the boned out stag a few posts back, shot in the evening and carried out next day. It was very long in the body and really heavy 80kg incl the pack, phew

Originally Posted by Stocky

I'm not sure I believe that, the culls went ahead pretty much exactly as planned I don't think anything we did stopped anything this cull. The biggest saving grace being an election that removed an antihunting agenda driven minister of conservation and that unfortunate helicopter accident. Maybe you could say that them targetting nannies was a win but realistically I think alot of bulls were still shot as seen by the high number of dead heads being turned up by hunters.

A bull Tahr is worth seven to ten grand as a trophy. The point of the Trophy industry is that enough bulls should be left to sustain that industry, and they were. Fish and Game have made requests for higher licence charges for overseas fishers. This has for the most part been rejected as trout fishing is advertised by the Govt as a tourist attraction. So although the govt does not advertise / promote NZ as a hunting destination the income it produces, like fishing is not un-noticed. Put a value on something and it will be protected and managed

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

If your father had a Hereford Stud he would be injury free, it's those mad Angus that do the damage, dont blame it on carrying deer !
I often shoot deer right on dark and it is easier to whip the guts out and carry it back rather than trying to cut it up in the dark.
The 'Graf' frame will carry a cut up deer in a bag. Thats what I did with the boned out stag a few posts back, shot in the evening and carried out next day. It was very long in the body and really heavy 80kg incl the pack, phew

Yeh right mate considering we cull for temperament haha thing is my pack takes boned meat well as it is and has hauled 180 pound moose quarters as comfortably as you can expect but that was just dumb/short trips to save having to use horses.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

A bull Tahr is worth seven to ten grand as a trophy. The point of the Trophy industry is that enough bulls should be left to sustain that industry, and they were. Fish and Game have made requests for higher licence charges for overseas fishers. This has for the most part been rejected as trout fishing is advertised by the Govt as a tourist attraction. So although the govt does not advertise / promote NZ as a hunting destination the income it produces, like fishing is not un-noticed. Put a value on something and it will be protected and managed

I think your prices are high especially once you remove the other costs of the hunt. Issue is there's heaps of bulls on private too a friend guides heaps of them in South Canterbury. I agree with we need to put a value in it I just don't think that the value in public land hunting is there or that it had any significant factor on the Tahr Cull.

Originally Posted by bigbear

Soon as you go to a management system for stags or tag system there will be a cost, It will become a rich man sport.
We are all protective about our big game animal but they are a pest

Not entirely.............. a phrase used is "if it pays it stays" when it comes to political stuff ....... so say for example in the National Park only, the Doc or Parks mob had "limited entry hunting" tags available, each hunter got Tags with their permit it allows 4x Hinds and 1x Stag........ just say. for $100-200??? an from there after, Stag tags can be purchase for $300 ?? Extra per tag...........
this gives each hunter 5 shots , 5 deer, Freezer full, conservation in mind and homie gets his Stag... an if Homie wants to shoot 5 stags, Pay up, or hunt Private or /State forest. not the Big country for Stags.........


Its not really worth exrpessing this ideology here but you can think of it as you wish, but American and the like all Seem to get by prety well, OTC, LEH, .......... mostly aussies and kiwis have head in bum a little too much to even begin to openly discuss a potential "tag" system and mostly because theres 405 ways to skin that Taggy cat , so il stop there but it is the way of the future if its to be successful with Populations and even having animals to hunt etc............................ period.

the whole pest thing is done an dusted, $$$$ Billion have been spent to date an there is just as many deer today as was any other day of pest erradicatin...

no futher elaboration on that as needs to be a big colab and someone would need to just take a control and do it, but then i can imagine the whinge fest.... fark

Originally Posted by gimp

Ungulates in NZ require management of some kind under current legislation to minimise impacts on native biodiversity. To maintain the social license for preserving a huntable population of any ungulates in the future, it seems likely that hunters need to be able to demonstrate value in some way commensurate to cover the costs to manage the population.

Essentially: User pays in the end.

Yeah so think about thatm Every $$ go into American Tags or hunting industry, trickles back to the hunting and Game industry...... hunters fund their own conservation in a round about way and openly know that happens with their taxes..... but its only Aussie and Kiwis who kick up a stink about paying a few bucks for licenses or whatever (which could be taxed and trickled down) as the aussies and kiwis are superior and are legendary cullers........for these pest beasts........ lol rolleyes ok.

if it pays it stays,

Originally Posted by Stocky

I think your prices are high especially once you remove the other costs of the hunt. Issue is there's heaps of bulls on private too a friend guides heaps of them in South Canterbury. I agree with we need to put a value in it I just don't think that the value in public land hunting is there or that it had any significant factor on the Tahr Cull.

always guna be deer but its been mentioned before by ya, once the gunships, poisons and all that happens, it deters very good ethical hunters an good people in genera lfrom going hunting............if waro went proper hard on the Wanaka road ballot block areas (openly and publically about it an not closet poofter behaviours) then i dont think Wanaka Roar bllot would have Any entrants................. which would mean Doc makes no money, Why? cos Doc just KILLED the one thing people pay to go shoot.

Originally Posted by Kelton

https://sikafoundation.co.nz/hind-sight/

That's a really excellent insight into the deer population demographics and herd structure.
Very good guide for hunters and what we should be striving to achieve.
The question is when is the best time to be shooting hinds?

Originally Posted by yogi

That's a really excellent insight into the deer population demographics and herd structure.
Very good guide for hunters and what we should be striving to achieve.
The question is when is the best time to be shooting hinds?

I think that's a point where we should discuss points but it's completely up to individual ethics and potential effect on the veiw of hunters.

For population control its should be all year round.

For stopping fawns suffering it should be from weaning to fawns being dropped.

For those morally against shooting pregnant deer maybe just the winter and early spring. Although technically deer are pregnant 75% of the year and have fawns at foot the other 25%.

Its finding an acceptable balance of all veiw points. Which is why discussion is important as I may/surely have missed other points of veiw.

At what age are fawns able to fend for themselves?

Originally Posted by Chur Bay

At what age are fawns able to fend for themselves?

I have no idea to be fair would be good to know I usually just base it on waiting till post the roar as I often see last year's crop wandering alone that time of year. It would be good to know.

Originally Posted by Stocky

Not sold, my qualms aren't with comfort they are with load through joints etc. I don't see it working well with bone removed. Sure it's fine for mellow semi open bush stuff but there's no way I'm putting a deer across sideways like that coming down a bush spur with no track that often are steep enough I'm already getting hung up by my pack. My pack carry weight well with the load shelf. I do enough dumb shit I don't need to be crippled by the time I'm 60. My father did stuff like this now there's not a hope in hell he'd hunt anywhere I do and he's still got 5 years to 60.

Ive already ruined my knees at 25 carrying out GOATS of all things haha. More keen on deboning out in the field because of knee issues although it is a messy and tiresome job, and maybe not the best for meat hygiene and ageing. Would be nice to have one of these, a pack goat to share the load!

Originally Posted by JessicaChen

Ive already ruined my knees at 25 carrying out GOATS of all things haha. More keen on deboning out in the field because of knee issues although it is a messy and tiresome job, and maybe not the best for meat hygiene and ageing. Would be nice to have one of these, a pack goat to share the load!
Attachment 164955

Have seriously looked into this.

Originally Posted by Chur Bay

At what age are fawns able to fend for themselves?

This is not a straight forward question to answer, so to put a date on it May 1 at the earliest.
On some deer farms fawns are weaned in the 1st - 10th March period where there is very good feed to go onto.
On a lot of farms, fawns are now weaned in the first week of May.
Later weaning does produce a better fawn / deer in the longer term than early weaning unless the early weaned fawns have very good feed and care and are not in really big mobs where social structure / pressure causes problems.
Motherless Deer fawns in the wild might or might not be able to tag along with a hind group so it would be best if they are big enough to cope alone.
Shooting hind fawns from May onward as well as their mothers is probably a very good option if we are honest.

Originally Posted by JessicaChen

Ive already ruined my knees at 25 carrying out GOATS of all things haha. More keen on deboning out in the field because of knee issues although it is a messy and tiresome job, and maybe not the best for meat hygiene and ageing. Would be nice to have one of these, a pack goat to share the load!
Attachment 164955

You might have ruined knees now but owning / being seen with a pack goat would most definitely ruin your reputation !

Originally Posted by Chur Bay

At what age are fawns able to fend for themselves?

Id say suprisingly Early in New Zealand without any natural predators unlike here in Australia, Dingo and even a hungry enough Fox may take advantage of a real Fresh Calf/Fawn/baby deer....... Aslong as it is 2ft tall it should be right to survive off bush foods and water

be worthy to ask some of these educated folks like Cam Speedy , his opinion on it.. an then sharing what he says or creating ones own material to have out in the internet world just clearing air on that.

good Question but once the fawns are out an about, its guna be alright, an in like 12 months from then, itl have a baby.. an so on.