Thread: Otago University needs Feral Pig DNA Samples

Hi Graeme, I can understand your frustration with Government Departments and Local Councils, the Rare Breeds Society has battled with them before. We also had run-ins with DoC in the early years, but now they warn the Rare Breed Society when they are planning on wiping out 'pest' animals on an Island or in a Conservation Area. So we have time to go in and capture a portion of the animals, to preserve in a domestic environment, in case future generations find they are actually useful after all. We've got various feral sheep, pigs and goat breeds, and even a cattle breed in this category.

But in this case, the research is simply to compare the genetics of various populations of pigs around the world, I presume to form a genetic tree of which breeds are genetically closer to which other breeds. Scientists have done this with cattle and other animals, so now it's the pigs turn. The NZ Rare Breeds Society is a non-profit organisation who's membership promote the conservation of heritage and feral breeds in NZ by directly keeping some of these breeds themselves, or simply donating money to help other members conserve them. Some of the membership fees go towards keeping a gene bank going and helping with some of the costs of rescuing endangered heritage or feral breeds, or some of the costs of building up the numbers again of very rare breeds.

We believe this conservation effort to be important, despite the fact that some of these animals are looked upon as pests, by some government departments. Genetic diversity is very important these days as numerous heritage domestic breeds go extinct across the world each year, in favour of a few commercial breeds. Even though, those commercial breeds aren't necessarily as well adapted to the local environment as the original landrace breeds are. It's the same with a number of plant species. We're losing genetic diversity in them as well.

This research is important to the Rare Breeds Conservation Society of NZ, as it gives us information on which of our feral pig breeds (possibly all of them) are unique in the world and their genetics need preserving. We already know that most of our domestic Heritage breed pigs are dropping in number, to an alarming extent. The NZ Pig Breeders Society used to have a number of members registering large numbers of purebred Large Whites and Landrace pigs each year, but these days they're lucky to get half a dozen registrations for those two breeds combined. We're losing the old commercial pig breeders left, right and centre as they retire and sell off their breeding pigs, because their sons know there's just not enough money in breeding pigs these days, as the costs are higher and the supermarkets won't pay the pork producers enough to make a living. There're now more Large Black pigs being registered by LifeStyle Block owners, who now make up most of the membership of the NZ Pig Breeders' Society. Other heritage breeds like the Tamworth and Saddleback are making a come-back, as far as registered breeding pig numbers goes.

There won't be any paperwork as such, accompanying the tissue samples being collected. The University just wants pictures of the animal, for identifications purposes and I'll use the general area that the hunter is planning to go hunting in, as a way of making sure that I obtain a diverse range of tissue samples from across the whole of the North Island, for testing. I am certainly not willing to be part of a plan to wipe out whole populations of pigs in the bush. From my personal point of view, as long as hunters keep the pig numbers under control, the damage to the bush can be kept to a reasonable level, where the bush is still able to replace itself as needed. It's where the numbers get out-of-hand, that too much damage is done and people need to start eating the excess pigs in order to get the numbers under control again.

I hope that has relieved your worries Graeme.

Originally Posted by Inger

Hi Graeme, I can understand your frustration with Government Departments and Local Councils, the Rare Breeds Society has battled with them before. We also had run-ins with DoC in the early years, but now they warn the Rare Breed Society when they are planning on wiping out 'pest' animals on an Island or in a Conservation Area. So we have time to go in and capture a portion of the animals, to preserve in a domestic environment, in case future generations find they are actually useful after all. We've got various feral sheep, pigs and goat breeds, and even a cattle breed in this category.

But in this case, the research is simply to compare the genetics of various populations of pigs around the world, I presume to form a genetic tree of which breeds are genetically closer to which other breeds. Scientists have done this with cattle and other animals, so now it's the pigs turn. The NZ Rare Breeds Society is a non-profit organisation who's membership promote the conservation of heritage and feral breeds in NZ by directly keeping some of these breeds themselves, or simply donating money to help other members conserve them. Some of the membership fees go towards keeping a gene bank going and helping with some of the costs of rescuing endangered heritage or feral breeds, or some of the costs of building up the numbers again of very rare breeds.

We believe this conservation effort to be important, despite the fact that some of these animals are looked upon as pests, by some government departments. Genetic diversity is very important these days as numerous heritage domestic breeds go extinct across the world each year, in favour of a few commercial breeds. Even though, those commercial breeds aren't necessarily as well adapted to the local environment as the original landrace breeds are. It's the same with a number of plant species. We're losing genetic diversity in them as well.

This research is important to the Rare Breeds Conservation Society of NZ, as it gives us information on which of our feral pig breeds (possibly all of them) are unique in the world and their genetics need preserving. We already know that most of our domestic Heritage breed pigs are dropping in number, to an alarming extent. The NZ Pig Breeders Society used to have a number of members registering large numbers of purebred Large Whites and Landrace pigs each year, but these days they're lucky to get half a dozen registrations for those two breeds combined. We're losing the old commercial pig breeders left, right and centre as they retire and sell off their breeding pigs, because their sons know there's just not enough money in breeding pigs these days, as the costs are higher and the supermarkets won't pay the pork producers enough to make a living. There're now more Large Black pigs being registered by LifeStyle Block owners, who now make up most of the membership of the NZ Pig Breeders' Society. Other heritage breeds like the Tamworth and Saddleback are making a come-back, as far as registered breeding pig numbers goes.

There won't be any paperwork as such, accompanying the tissue samples being collected. The University just wants pictures of the animal, for identifications purposes and I'll use the general area that the hunter is planning to go hunting in, as a way of making sure that I obtain a diverse range of tissue samples from across the whole of the North Island, for testing. I am certainly not willing to be part of a plan to wipe out whole populations of pigs in the bush. From my personal point of view, as long as hunters keep the pig numbers under control, the damage to the bush can be kept to a reasonable level, where the bush is still able to replace itself as needed. It's where the numbers get out-of-hand, that too much damage is done and people need to start eating the excess pigs in order to get the numbers under control again.

I hope that has relieved your worries Graeme.

Well thanks for the comprehensive layout of your hopes and aspirations 'Inger'. I do believe in what you are doing, but history has proven before that as soon as people start paying attention to one species of game it usually leads to its wholesale slaughter.

Our Government cares not a damn for genetic diversity as can be seen in the past when we could not even protect such an Iconic and much loved species as the Wapiti from the greedy depredation's of our Government that began in 1981. The Govt lied to its people and set out without a qualm to destroy this herd.

Then in 1987 the Thar population was attacked by helicopter recovery teams with encouragement from our Govt Agencies to 'get the last one'. The population was reduced from 30 40,000 to just 2,000. If the last ones wernt so hard to get we would have lost this herd which is the envy of much of the world.

Then we destroyed the Enderby Island cattle that had some of the most interesting and useful traits of any cattle in the world.

We were living on our Yacht in the Sounds when Betty Rowe mustered us all to oppose DOC walking onto her property and destroying the Arapawa Island Goat. Another vault of gentic diversity that people were interested in saving. DOC didn't care, they methodically set out to destroy this animal that had lived there since they were released by Captain Cook.

When Ken Tustin met an Italian studying the heavily protected Himalayan Thar in the Himalaya's. He was asked "what sort of Conservation methods do you use on your herd in New Zealand". Ken replied "Um we shoot them"

This about sums us up as a country really. The lucky country full of animals that make us they envy of many in the world thanks to our far seeing ancestors. A country that was badly in need of animals to keep its forest open since the demise of the 17 variety's of moa that roamed in the millions from our high snow fields to the sea. If you don't believe this is true try counting in our Forest the species of plant that has developed self protection system to combat grazers

As a treat I have taken people to see our old exclosured plots we built to keep animals out in the seventies. These patches of jungle have become absolutely impenetrable with the whole mass of shrubbery excluding any decent trees ever being propagated and the mass is bound together with bush lawyer. A hideous example of what will happen if we let our wild animal numbers get too low.

Yes, as I've said, the Rare Breeds Conservation Society has had it's run-ins with DoC in the past. We managed to save the Enderby cattle from extinction. It was very difficult and required cloning to start with, but we now have three naturally breeding herds, with semen still in storage, in case we need more genetic diversity in future years. They are a wild breed of course, so it takes an experienced cattle handler to keep themselves safe from the bulls. The first bull - Derby, had to put put down eventually (once he'd provided us with enough daughters) as he had no fear of humans and became completely dangerous. Hand raised Enderby bull look like being another one of those animals that you don't keep entire.

We don't have any worries about the Arapawa goats becoming extinct, as we have a number being bred in captivity now and some have been sent to the States and work is in progress to export some to the UK, where they originated from and no longer exist. There are still goats on Arapawa Island, on a sanctuary, which is now part of a Trust that has been set up for the preservation of the animals that have been on the Island over 100 years. So seed stock is still available if numbers on the mainland drop too low. Since the goats make amazing pets, that isn't likely to happen.

We saved the Auckland Island pigs from extinction, by rescuing a good number of them and taking them to a quarantine facility, where they have been kept free of any pig diseases that they would have had no immunity against, after being isolated on the Auckland Islands for over 100 years.

It is a pity that the Thar weren't live captured, for sending back to the Himalayas, instead of being shot. That was very short sited of DoC. Thankfully they were stopped before they killed them out completely.

They have learnt though. When they wanted to clear the wallabies off Great Barrier Island, they invited an Australian Conservation group to come over and capture a number which were in good health and take them back to Australia, where they are endangered, before eradicating the rest. So I'm more optimistic that there is a change in that Department, that they are realising that non-indigenous species still have value to a sector of NZers and to the country of origin of those species.

Our Society is working to improve the education of the Ministry of Conservation and we do apply pressure to them, to realise that most other countries in the world are working hard to keep their genetic diversity and that it's not only our native wildlife and our commercial breeds that are important for NZs future. All genetically different breeds are important to preserve, even if it means that non-profit organisations like ours have to do the work involved to ensure we retain a gene pool of unique NZ breeds.

We are now storing semen of the Drysdale sheep, as their unique wool type is no longer commercially useful. The production and sale of natural wool carpets has reduced so markedly, that there are only a couple of factories still making wool carpets in NZ. Still, the Drysdale mutation can't be allowed to die out, just in case the economic climate comes around full circle and that type of wool is in demand again. As it only requires one of the mutated genes in the offspring to produce the Drysdale wool type, the semen we will have stored, can be used to kick-start a large flock, by inseminating any suitable wool breed of sheep. So we have an insurance for the future, if the last Drysdale flock dies out.

So, though we can't anticipate the working of Government Departments, we can at least mitigate the damage they can do, by keeping communications going between them and the Rare Breeds Society and saving small populations of 'pest animals' where we can. There are people in the Department of Conservation that are sensitive to the work of the Rare Breeds Society and will work with us to achieve a favourable result. The tide is turning, but as is typical, change happens slowly.

Originally Posted by Inger

Yes, as I've said, the Rare Breeds Conservation Society has had it's run-ins with DoC in the past. We managed to save the Enderby cattle from extinction. It was very difficult and required cloning to start with, but we now have three naturally breeding herds, with semen still in storage, in case we need more genetic diversity in future years. They are a wild breed of course, so it takes an experienced cattle handler to keep themselves safe from the bulls. The first bull - Derby, had to put put down eventually (once he'd provided us with enough daughters) as he had no fear of humans and became completely dangerous. Hand raised Enderby bull look like being another one of those animals that you don't keep entire.

We don't have any worries about the Arapawa goats becoming extinct, as we have a number being bred in captivity now and some have been sent to the States and work is in progress to export some to the UK, where they originated from and no longer exist. There are still goats on Arapawa Island, on a sanctuary, which is now part of a Trust that has been set up for the preservation of the animals that have been on the Island over 100 years. So seed stock is still available if numbers on the mainland drop too low. Since the goats make amazing pets, that isn't likely to happen.

We saved the Auckland Island pigs from extinction, by rescuing a good number of them and taking them to a quarantine facility, where they have been kept free of any pig diseases that they would have had no immunity against, after being isolated on the Auckland Islands for over 100 years.

It is a pity that the Thar weren't live captured, for sending back to the Himalayas, instead of being shot. That was very short sited of DoC. Thankfully they were stopped before they killed them out completely.

They have learnt though. When they wanted to clear the wallabies off Great Barrier Island, they invited an Australian Conservation group to come over and capture a number which were in good health and take them back to Australia, where they are endangered, before eradicating the rest. So I'm more optimistic that there is a change in that Department, that they are realising that non-indigenous species still have value to a sector of NZers and to the country of origin of those species.

Our Society is working to improve the education of the Ministry of Conservation and we do apply pressure to them, to realise that most other countries in the world are working hard to keep their genetic diversity and that it's not only our native wildlife and our commercial breeds that are important for NZs future. All genetically different breeds are important to preserve, even if it means that non-profit organisations like ours have to do the work involved to ensure we retain a gene pool of unique NZ breeds.

We are now storing semen of the Drysdale sheep, as their unique wool type is no longer commercially useful. The production and sale of natural wool carpets has reduced so markedly, that there are only a couple of factories still making wool carpets in NZ. Still, the Drysdale mutation can't be allowed to die out, just in case the economic climate comes around full circle and that type of wool is in demand again. As it only requires one of the mutated genes in the offspring to produce the Drysdale wool type, the semen we will have stored, can be used to kick-start a large flock, by inseminating any suitable wool breed of sheep. So we have an insurance for the future, if the last Drysdale flock dies out.

So, though we can't anticipate the working of Government Departments, we can at least mitigate the damage they can do, by keeping communications going between them and the Rare Breeds Society and saving small populations of 'pest animals' where we can. There are people in the Department of Conservation that are sensitive to the work of the Rare Breeds Society and will work with us to achieve a favourable result. The tide is turning, but as is typical, change happens slowly.

Thanks 'Inger' that was a most interesting and comprehensive explanation of what you people are trying to achieve.

I will see if I can work the magic for you but you see how difficult it is my pig hunting mate is even more suspicious than I am. Are frozen Pork samples any good or do you need an ear

The AHB used to collect pigs heads as a means of tracking bovine TB. I was told by our herd tester when picking some heads up that there are different strains of TB round NZ and that Pigs are excellent indicators, if carrying TB they do not spread it.
When the results came out there were two infected pigs handed in that carried what was identified as a coromandel strain of TB. This was in southern Hawkes Bay. Forestry workers were believed to have bought pigs down from Tauranga to "seed" a new forestry block. (Restocking is apparently a common practice with some pig hunters) so I suspect that the results of your survey will be quite interesting. Put me down for a sample pack.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

The AHB used to collect pigs heads as a means of tracking bovine TB. I was told by our herd tester when picking some heads up that there are different strains of TB round NZ and that Pigs are excellent indicators, if carrying TB they do not spread it.
When the results came out there were two infected pigs handed in that carried what was identified as a coromandel strain of TB. This was in southern Hawkes Bay. Forestry workers were believed to have bought pigs down from Tauranga to "seed" a new forestry block. (Restocking is apparently a common practice with some pig hunters) so I suspect that the results of your survey will be quite interesting. Put me down for a sample pack.

Coromandel strain of TB???... But the Coromandel has always had the TB Free status.

I was talking today to a Farmer down Ratahi this morning. He was telling me that some crowd (AHB ???)is paying 70 dollars a head for complete Pigs heads for study. So this farmer will let anyone go hunting on his place providing the bring as many pigs heads down as they can find. These pig heads are coming from all over the Country. The farmer is delighted with his little racket.

Bet they provide some interesting results. I must find out more about this.

Graeme, I've been advised that a fresh sample is best, to put in the collection container with the preservative. Once the sample is in the container, it can be refrigerated until it's sent by courier. We also need pictures of the animal and that would be difficult once it's in the freezer.

This project isn't being financed by DoC, it's an international project that NZ has been dragging it's feet on and we need to provide the data that overseas conservation groups have been waiting for. One of our Committee Members is also on the International Rare Breeds Committee and has been embarrassed at times, by the Government's lack of interest in promoting genetic diversity, which is being pushed by many countries overseas. If we don't do this sort of research, we won't know what we've lost until it's gone. Then it's too late to do anything about saving critically endangered breeds.

Marty, thanks for volunteering. If you could email me your postal address, I can post/courier a collection pack out to you. My email address is; inger@keymer.name
I should be getting the sample containers this week, so I can send them out after that. Can you also let me know which area you'll be hunting in please.

So far I've got someone hunting in Leigh (near Warkworth) and in the Kaitaia area. I've also approached a hunting group in TeKuiti.

Originally Posted by Inger

Graeme, I've been advised that a fresh sample is best, to put in the collection container with the preservative. Once the sample is in the container, it can be refrigerated until it's sent by courier. We also need pictures of the animal and that would be difficult once it's in the freezer.

This project isn't being financed by DoC, it's an international project that NZ has been dragging it's feet on and we need to provide the data that overseas conservation groups have been waiting for. One of our Committee Members is also on the International Rare Breeds Committee and has been embarrassed at times, by the Government's lack of interest in promoting genetic diversity, which is being pushed by many countries overseas. If we don't do this sort of research, we won't know what we've lost until it's gone. Then it's too late to do anything about saving critically endangered breeds.

Marty, thanks for volunteering. If you could email me your postal address, I can post/courier a collection pack out to you. My email address is; inger@keymer.name
I should be getting the sample containers this week, so I can send them out after that. Can you also let me know which area you'll be hunting in please.

So far I've got someone hunting in Leigh (near Warkworth) and in the Kaitaia area. I've also approached a hunting group in TeKuiti.

Just a thought I had. I have pork from at least two different Coromandel pigs in my freezer.

I am a bit disturbed about how these rumours got started about a 'Coromandel Strain Of TB among Wild Pigs'
can you cast some more light on this @Marty Henry

[QUOTE=Graeme Sturgeon;336310]Just a thought I had. I have pork from at least two different Coromandel pigs in my freezer.

I am a bit disturbed about how these rumours got started about a 'Coromandel Strain Of TB among Wild Pigs'
can you cast some more light on this
Chinese wispers! after your post on tb free coromandel I asked a hunter who collected pigs heads for Agriquality several years ago, as far as he can recall it was not "coromandel TB" but pigs from the coromandel identified by DNA when they were looking for TB. Obviously my mistake oops

[QUOTE=Marty Henry;336403]

Originally Posted by Graeme Sturgeon

Just a thought I had. I have pork from at least two different Coromandel pigs in my freezer.

I am a bit disturbed about how these rumours got started about a 'Coromandel Strain Of TB among Wild Pigs'
can you cast some more light on this
Chinese wispers! after your post on tb free coromandel I asked a hunter who collected pigs heads for Agriquality several years ago, as far as he can recall it was not "coromandel TB" but pigs from the coromandel identified by DNA when they were looking for TB. Obviously my mistake oops

Thanks for clearing that up Marty. It gave me a shock, as we are proud of our TB free status in the Coromandel. If pigs are going to be liberated the ones from here are best.

Better not to liberate domestic pigs at all ! There are enough in the bush already.

Great post inger, enjoying, next project Kiwi?

We've got Kiwi and Weka living on our farm. Weka are great for keeping rats and mice under control. Since they were released in our valley, we hardly use any rat bait. We have had a few possums move in, at the end of last year, but they gobbled the 'kiwicare' bait blocks so fast, I reckon they got stomach ache! Two of them had been munching on one of our Pecan trees, almost denuding it. Since the possums ate a bait block and died, the tree has bounced back and almost looks the same as the other Pecan trees. When we went to order some more bait, we found out that the price has gone up again. You sure wouldn't want to have to buy too many of them, that's for sure.

So the poor old Weka vulnerable to the 1080 as well! Keep up the interesting thread

They haven't done a 1080 drop on the Russell peninsular in 16 years or so. The land owners either take care of possums themselves, or we allow a guy to come through, to fill up his bait stations. The kiwi numbers are fairly stable, if people keep their dogs under control and the weka numbers are increasing. We had a weka family living under and around our cottage in Spring. They raised all 4 of their chicks, then told them to get lost and find their own territories.

I've live caught a few wild cats on our place as well. They usually end up being put down. It really bugs me when city people dump their cats in the country, instead of getting them put down when they don't want them anymore. Talk about pass the buck!