Thread: People very sick after eating wild pig

Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway

Well, a fool I may be. But considering no one on here is a goddamn doctor, I will go with the opinion of people who are for the time being, until I get my own PHD sorted out.
And you just have to listen to some of these anti-1080 people sometimes and you realise that you really wouldnt want to be roped to them if you were mountain climbing.

If you put your faith entirely in doctors then you've got some hard times in your future. Doctors are people just like the rest of us, they are open to mistakes and other influences. You also seem to be hung up on the anti-1080 thing, I and others have noted it doesn't sound like 1080.

It doesn't take a PHD to look at the symptoms and processes that happen with botulism toxin. It takes time to kick in, if those people ingested it from a meal it would have to have been one from a day or so earlier. If that were the case then you would expect the symptoms for each adult to kick in over a more diverse period of time. In this case the 3 adults came down ill simultaneously - which would indicate it came from that recent meal.

Here's a tip from an old fella, question doctors. It may save your life one day. I just had a work colleague diagnosed with an ailment by NZ doctors (cancer related), their option was surgery - nothing else. She hold dual citizenship, so she went back to her original country and the doctors there told here no it was easily dealt with with localized radiation treatment. She got 3 different opinions. She's back in NZ now all cleared up.

When a doctor says "we're only checking for botulism" that tells me they've already made up their mind. They have made an assumption, not a diagnosis.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Interesting. Was your advise to them based on gut instinct or some sort of particular expertise/qualifications that you have?

The effects on the victims did not match my understanding of poisoning symptoms of any poison commonly used in the bush. Nor have I ever heard of botulism being caused to a pig hunter in NZ. There was more than one hunter according to the news, yet no one outside that particular home or meal reported any effects. I doubt the entire pig was consumed, and the pig must have been alive when shot, so if any artificial poison was present in the pig, the meal consumers would have a much lesser portion than what may have been contained in the entire pig body when the pig was alive.
The assumption that the pig itself caused the illness does'nt ring true to me.

Originally Posted by vulcannz

If you put your faith entirely in doctors then you've got some hard times in your future. Doctors are people just like the rest of us, they are open to mistakes and other influences. You also seem to be hung up on the anti-1080 thing, I and others have noted it doesn't sound like 1080.

It doesn't take a PHD to look at the symptoms and processes that happen with botulism toxin. It takes time to kick in, if those people ingested it from a meal it would have to have been one from a day or so earlier. If that were the case then you would expect the symptoms for each adult to kick in over a more diverse period of time. In this case the 3 adults came down ill simultaneously - which would indicate it came from that recent meal.

Here's a tip from an old fella, question doctors. It may save your life one day. I just had a work colleague diagnosed with an ailment by NZ doctors (cancer related), their option was surgery - nothing else. She hold dual citizenship, so she went back to her original country and the doctors there told here no it was easily dealt with with localized radiation treatment. She got 3 different opinions. She's back in NZ now all cleared up.

When a doctor says "we're only checking for botulism" that tells me they've already made up their mind. They have made an assumption, not a diagnosis.

Maybe. But in this "pig" case internet jockeys are attempting to make a diagnosis with incomplete, subjective or imagined information. The Dr's are making it with all of the information to hand and on the back of specialised medical diagnostic training, at least four years of intense studies and the considered opinions of colleagues and specialists. I know who I would put my faith in.

Someone ring Dr House & that hot sidekick chick, they will sort it.

Originally Posted by vulcannz

If you put your faith entirely in doctors then you've got some hard times in your future. Doctors are people just like the rest of us, they are open to mistakes and other influences. You also seem to be hung up on the anti-1080 thing, I and others have noted it doesn't sound like 1080.

It doesn't take a PHD to look at the symptoms and processes that happen with botulism toxin. It takes time to kick in, if those people ingested it from a meal it would have to have been one from a day or so earlier. If that were the case then you would expect the symptoms for each adult to kick in over a more diverse period of time. In this case the 3 adults came down ill simultaneously - which would indicate it came from that recent meal.

Here's a tip from an old fella, question doctors. It may save your life one day. I just had a work colleague diagnosed with an ailment by NZ doctors (cancer related), their option was surgery - nothing else. She hold dual citizenship, so she went back to her original country and the doctors there told here no it was easily dealt with with localized radiation treatment. She got 3 different opinions. She's back in NZ now all cleared up.

When a doctor says "we're only checking for botulism" that tells me they've already made up their mind. They have made an assumption, not a diagnosis.

You may be right. But I question internet characters with strong opinions that are based on nothing at all, before a doctor.

Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway

You may be right. But I question internet characters with strong opinions that are based on nothing at all, before a doctor.

if youre taking a pot at me carlsen -i dont give a fat rats arse.my credentials are well known on this forum and i tell it how i sees it .
as started Is it not curious no one else was poisoned by eating this particular pig IIRC 3hunters actually secured the bloody thing.
secondly Isnt it curious that this by all accounts seems a one off .given the extreme popularity of pig hunting as a national pastime,I'd have expected to hear more reports of apparent botulism in pig hunters or dogs over the years .dunno about you but myaself im an avid reader and conversationalist and all the info ive gained on pig hunting has never mentioned botulism.ive read of cases where porcine TBwas suspected so carcasses were discarde(often characteriased by nodules of tumours attached to vital organs.
BTW beofre I go -to all you cynics and doubters re doctors -if you dont like medicos ,try it out for yourselves -walk a mile in our shoes.
believe me not a day goes past when i dont smile at at least one knowall pain in the arse,or stand there mute as a some knowall demanding petulant wee arsehole gives me an illfounded or unwarranted spray.some of you would have no bloody idea the filthy abuse thats hurled at us or the actual physical violence we suffer .
no we dont reply with taser or pepperspray ,nor sidearm ,though its fucking tempting!
wht do you think this country has a shortage of Drs and nurses.
Nuff fucking said

Botulism or other bacteria could have easily been introduced between him killing and them eating the pig. Weather it was bad preparation, rotten filth on cooking utensils or bad curry paste there are many possibilities. Food science 101, food can kill you.

Originally Posted by kotuku

if youre taking a pot at me carlsen -i dont give a fat rats arse.my credentials are well known on this forum and i tell it how i sees it .
as started Is it not curious no one else was poisoned by eating this particular pig IIRC 3hunters actually secured the bloody thing.
secondly Isnt it curious that this by all accounts seems a one off .given the extreme popularity of pig hunting as a national pastime,I'd have expected to hear more reports of apparent botulism in pig hunters or dogs over the years .dunno about you but myaself im an avid reader and conversationalist and all the info ive gained on pig hunting has never mentioned botulism.ive read of cases where porcine TBwas suspected so carcasses were discarde(often characteriased by nodules of tumours attached to vital organs.
BTW beofre I go -to all you cynics and doubters re doctors -if you dont like medicos ,try it out for yourselves -walk a mile in our shoes.
believe me not a day goes past when i dont smile at at least one knowall pain in the arse,or stand there mute as a some knowall demanding petulant wee arsehole gives me an illfounded or unwarranted spray.some of you would have no bloody idea the filthy abuse thats hurled at us or the actual physical violence we suffer .
no we dont reply with taser or pepperspray ,nor sidearm ,though its fucking tempting!
wht do you think this country has a shortage of Drs and nurses.
Nuff fucking said

No, I was commenting to Vulcannz. His post is quoted within mine.

My 2C on this.......

Botulism has an incubation period greater than what it took "whatever" to overcome the family.

WHO | Botulism
"Symptoms of foodborne botulism

Botulinum toxins are neurotoxic and therefore affect the nervous system. Foodborne botulism is characterized by descending, flaccid paralysis that can cause respiratory failure. Early symptoms include marked fatigue, weakness and vertigo, usually followed by blurred vision, dry mouth and difficulty in swallowing and speaking. Vomiting, diarrhoea, constipation and abdominal swelling may also occur. The disease can progress to weakness in the neck and arms, after which the respiratory muscles and muscles of the lower body are affected. There is no fever and no loss of consciousness.
The symptoms are not caused by the bacterium itself, but by the toxin produced by the bacterium. Symptoms usually appear within 12 to 36 hours (within a minimum and maximum range of 4 hours to 8 days) after exposure. Incidence of botulism is low, but the mortality rate is high if prompt diagnosis and appropriate, immediate treatment (early administration of antitoxin and intensive respiratory care) are not given. The disease can be fatal in 5 to 10% of cases."

Family were overcome within 15mins of consuming the meat and lost consciousness very quickly. Botulism doesn't ring true, and even the WHO agrees it is unlikely to be botulism.
And with the DHB refusing to release the toxicity report that was requested under the OIA, it looks more like someone doesn't want the truth to come out.
If it was a poison, then whoever was responsible could face criminal charges.

My sons a Doctor, reading the bullshit here on not trusting a doctor, I hope when you really get ill you don't scurry off to some poor Doc that's never met you before and has no history on you for treatment??
Go to your naturopath, or maybe post on here for advice or just curl up and die!!

Originally Posted by Maca49

My sons a Doctor, reading the bullshit here on not trusting a doctor, I hope when you really get ill you don't scurry off to some poor Doc that's never met you before and has no history on you for treatment??
Go to your naturopath, or maybe post on here for advice or just curl up and die!!

It's not about not trusting a doctor, it's about questioning and pushing for accurate diagnosis and accurate treatment. As for bullshit I almost died because I didn't push/question a doctor once (infected gall bladder, where overseas they remove it - but in NZ they give it a few weeks to see what happens... say hello to gangrene!). Since then I have started questioning doctors when I don't think they are acting appropriately (example our 3rd kid was diagnosed with severe G6PD deficiency , doctor had no inclination to test the other 2 until I asked for it).

As you get older you realize people of all trades are not perfect, and you need to take some responsibility for your health.

Or maybe your son is absolutely perfect and makes no mistakes?

Originally Posted by outdoorlad

Someone ring Dr House & that hot sidekick chick, they will sort it.

Yes, they'll go and break into the family's house and look through the kitchen herbs.

Originally Posted by vulcannz

It's not about not trusting a doctor, it's about questioning and pushing for accurate diagnosis and accurate treatment. As for bullshit I almost died because I didn't push/question a doctor once (infected gall bladder, where overseas they remove it - but in NZ they give it a few weeks to see what happens... say hello to gangrene!). Since then I have started questioning doctors when I don't think they are acting appropriately (example our 3rd kid was diagnosed with severe G6PD deficiency , doctor had no inclination to test the other 2 until I asked for it).

As you get older you realize people of all trades are not perfect, and you need to take some responsibility for your health.

Or maybe your son is absolutely perfect and makes no mistakes?

@Maca49 and @vulcannz

Well, according to the impression gained by @berg243 from his knowledgeable (doctor) sister, doctors are total retards because they occasionally write "L" when they were meant to write "R".

Originally Posted by vulcannz

It's not about not trusting a doctor, it's about questioning and pushing for accurate diagnosis and accurate treatment. As for bullshit I almost died because I didn't push/question a doctor once (infected gall bladder, where overseas they remove it - but in NZ they give it a few weeks to see what happens... say hello to gangrene!). Since then I have started questioning doctors when I don't think they are acting appropriately (example our 3rd kid was diagnosed with severe G6PD deficiency , doctor had no inclination to test the other 2 until I asked for it).

As you get older you realize people of all trades are not perfect, and you need to take some responsibility for your health.

Or maybe your son is absolutely perfect and makes no mistakes?

I guess being around doctors you appreciate how caring they are and what they need to learn on an ongoing basis, so I think you need a good relationship with your doctor and don't be scared to ask for a second opinion. A good doctor should ask his fellow practitioners for that if he's unsure. Much like you I had a bad experience with a doctor which was life threatening. I took the opportunity to find another and for the passed 20 years, yep I'm getting older, Ive enjoyed excellent health care with a great doctor. Not trusting them, ask my sister in law today as she starts a battle with cancer, once again a good doctor and the healthcare system will see her through!

It is a fair idea to question doctors. Asking questions does not mean that you think they are wrong. It is smart to question them. When the doctor has the correct diagnosis, the answers you will get will give you more information about what is happening to your body and what to expect, what to look out for and when you should return if something that is unexpected occurs. And if the questions raise information that affects the accuracy of the diagnosis, such as unnoticed symptoms or symptoms the patient has dismissed as "normal" the Doctor is then able to gather more information.

Doctors can get it wrong sometimes. I would point out that some of this is because the patient may have left out vital clues for diagnosis as they were unaware of the importance of a minor symptom or may not have realised something was a symptom. And occasionally Doctors prove they were human too. At the end of the day, questions about what is happening will not harm a correct diagnosis and will provide you with confirmation and information, and these same qustions can clarify why the doctor is suspecting that diagnosis, and may be ale to verify or correct any diagnosis they have.

It is your health, and you should want to know as much about it as you can.