Thread: Pre baiting 1080

Originally Posted by Rusky

Were talking a LOT of man power and resources here and something this government isn't prepared to throw money at. They are happy to announce New Zealand will become "Predator free" by 2050. I'm yet to see some logical and proactive steps to getting the desired outcome.

@No.3, have you ventured into Otanewainuku forest per chance since you are in Tauranga? That bit of forest is by far the best well managed forest for predators I have seen on my travels in NZ. The bird life is incredible, and the Kokako are thriving. A bait line every 200m apart with Pindone is doing well. But I see back in 1997 1080 in bait stations were used.

Yeah, venture over a few times a year - not often enough considering it is only about 10mins up the road. The trust and their vollies do a heap of work and it's seriously well resourced as well which really helps things rolling on. We try to do our bit by running rat traps etc where we are (6km approx. in a straight line) but we are just a little outlying island in a sea of pests unfortunately.

Awesome. Any Fallow kicking around on farm/bush fringes?

You mean pets? Yes damnit.

Originally Posted by Woody

If a man can walk the terrain then it can be trapped. Remote access to prepared helipads allow trapper bases and block shifts.

LOL In market where you can't even find sometime to do the most basic of 9-5 jobs

Y know, thats a comment often made by the advocates for aerial poisoning, but when one examines similar occupations to trapping such as high country shepherding or commercial fishing or forestry work of general hands on farms a similar problem exists but not to the same extent. The difference is that the outdoor semi isolated jobs I listed are leading to recognised qualified and regularly paid professions. Plenty of people just simply love the outdoors including hunters trampers fishers mountaineers skiers etc; so if trapping became formalised as a regularly paid profession and given the respect as such and with adequate rewards incentives including proper project planning then the pest management scenario wpuld change radically, bearing in mind investing similar billions of dollars invested in that direction instead of aerial bomb and repeat repeat with its collatetal damage and socio economic disadvantages. The universal committment to the industry formalising it has never been prolumgated by goverment and should be. The closest govt had come was deer culling by internal affairs and nzfs but even that did not go much beyond badic training at Dip Flat. The stagnant mindset needs to change.

Woody, agree with what you have said. Unfortunately that mindset of get in and do some work is dying slowly away with every new generation. Its what I've recently discovered and become aware is the "woke" generation. Something too hard or involves mental challenges is simply pushed aside.

I've had new employees in our industry sign contracts, go through reference checks, training/inductions to only throw the towel in after a week of work. Incredibly frustrating and time wasting.

I established a training crew in our logging operations 40 years back and even then we lost about 30% of each intake and I think this is pretty normal and a cost that is simply another overhead. A few years down the track about a further 50% are gone to other occupations but I see nothing especially unusual about that either as it happens in many industries. I think back to NZFS formal Woodsman and Forest Ranger trainee intakes and the similar cadetships in the larger forestry companies; these formal qualifying training courses which took a few years to complete turned out some good career men but there was still an attrition rate over decades. Again, I consider this normal. If formalised trapping schools were propey set up I think similar career histories would occur and would to a large extent eluminate aerial poisoning as a common and expensive tool. For some reason this option never develiped beyond the old boy network of the DPF, which, in my view has been a great shame. However some intelligent governance not bogged down with the current mental blocks cluld change all this.

You should see the processing facility I'm at now.
Minimum 30% absence rate. One side of the plant that equates to 20 staff minimum off every day. Acc work and non work related, sick, no shows etc.
The other side always has a bunch off too
Then there are the ones they get I ducted and kitted up and they last a week, a day or less.
Not a bad starting rate either. 3 bucks more than minimum for the bottom no experience position.

I and a few others I recognise on here went through a formal training program in pest destruction, most that stuck at it at all did it for the lifestyle and certainly not the money aspect.
That will only take you so far in a career and most got out to seek better paid employment once other life commitments came along.

As a skilled worker that had gone through training and living isolated i would expect in todays terms to be paid $40/hr minimum I dont see that happening, sure those that run such a course and manage the teams would probably be earning in excess of 120K for their 9 to 5 contribution but those on the ground would be financially going down hill from that and poorer work conditions.

When councils and DOC call for volunteers to "help" with this sort of thing it makes me cringe. They are preying on peoples good will, kind of like a pedophile preys on kids in an institution.

Originally Posted by johnd

I and a few others I recognise on here went through a formal training program in pest destruction, most that stuck at it at all did it for the lifestyle and certainly not the money aspect.
That will only take you so far in a career and most got out to seek better paid employment once other life commitments came along.

As a skilled worker that had gone through training and living isolated i would expect in todays terms to be paid $40/hr minimum I dont see that happening, sure those that run such a course and manage the teams would probably be earning in excess of 120K for their 9 to 5 contribution but those on the ground would be financially going down hill from that and poorer work conditions.

When councils and DOC call for volunteers to "help" with this sort of thing it makes me cringe. They are preying on peoples good will, kind of like a pedophile preys on kids in an institution.

Know where your coming from, one area of Pureora North block I know well has bait stations which are monitored by volunteers, tracks were cut thru the bush for the stations to be placed on, area is like a sub-division. Was told it's so the volunteers didn't get misplaced If hunters cut tracks like this the "powers" would be on your doorstep.

Originally Posted by Woody

Y know, thats a comment often made by the advocates for aerial poisoning, but when one examines similar occupations to trapping such as high country shepherding or commercial fishing or forestry work of general hands on farms a similar problem exists but not to the same extent. The difference is that the outdoor semi isolated jobs I listed are leading to recognised qualified and regularly paid professions. Plenty of people just simply love the outdoors including hunters trampers fishers mountaineers skiers etc; so if trapping became formalised as a regularly paid profession and given the respect as such and with adequate rewards incentives including proper project planning then the pest management scenario wpuld change radically, bearing in mind investing similar billions of dollars invested in that direction instead of aerial bomb and repeat repeat with its collatetal damage and socio economic disadvantages. The universal committment to the industry formalising it has never been prolumgated by goverment and should be. The closest govt had come was deer culling by internal affairs and nzfs but even that did not go much beyond badic training at Dip Flat. The stagnant mindset needs to change.

I've worked in the pest control industry ever since I can left school. I can honestly tell you finding staff and retaining them is dam near impossible.
We have done some of the blocks via ground control that are now in the aerial 1080 program.
Getting people to ride around on flat farmland doing possum control is hard enough let alone getting people to fly in and stay in a tent. Dealing with average weather and grovelling on your hand and knees through some of that scrub country with a heavy pack on every day puts people off really quickly.

A lot of outfits pay poorly aswell

Money talks. Pay peanuts you get .onkeys.

Originally Posted by Woody

Money talks. Pay peanuts you get .onkeys.

Yeah couldn't agree more. Thing is even if you pay reasonably, put people through thousands of dollars worth of courses, CSL etc to be up to scratch to do the work it still takes a special type of person to be out there doing the hard work. People get sick of being out in the hills away from their families, out in the weather, carting around a heavy pack. The staff turnover is high and the monetary input and time (which is money) to get the staff up to scratch is high. To stay afloat nowadays companies have to be risk adverse, sometimes it is easier just to 1080 some of the shite than lose some of your good staff by putting them off.

Yes, its a conundrum but I think a full on committment to trapping would work in most terrain. The possums rats and mustelids will never be fully wiped out and therefore the problem is very long term maitainance. Given that assumption it makes sense to establish permanent trap lines and regularly service these. Doing so amaliorates the hard yakka of packing traps around in scrubby bush greatly. Yes it has a high initial setup cost but the advantages of permanent accessways are well proven. E.g. cullers track cutting, tramping tracks and of course bridal tracks and our common roading networks. Access is key and it is a mindset follwed by committment to long term management efficiency. This minset is lacking.