Thread: Resurgence of interest in the old "Three Oh"?

Originally Posted by mimms2

Y'all know they're designed so you can cycle the action without breaking face-weld? Raising it up too high and you could be smacking yourself in the head with the bolt.

I’m a lefty, the biggest danger is pinching the outside edge of my left hand between the bolt handle and the action when working the bolt rapidly, I don’t do faceweld while cranking the bolt.

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

This thread made me dig out my 1942 Long Branch ‘3-oh’ that had been sporterised and barrel shortened and what looks like a home made foresight, the rear is still has the two position battlesight.

Forgotten it has the two groove rifling (in average condition)

Were many two grooves made and what accuracy did they have?

Greetings @Finnwolf,
There were a lot of two groove barrels made during WW2 in Canada and the US. Target shooters used to replace two groove barrels with the more normal 5 groove thinking the two groove ones were a war time expedient and must be crap. That has not been my experience. My Longbranch scoped .303 had a very rough two groove that shot really well. It was just a pig to clean. Fortunately I had a mint two groove barrel in the cupboard so had it screwed in. It shot even better, around a MoA with my soft loads and the 174 grain round nose. The .303 two groove barrel dimensions are quite weird with very deep narrow grooves but they generally give good accuracy and long service life. I won't be parting with mine.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by AMac

Great thread - the 3 O is such a part of hunting history in NZ great to see such enthusiasm for the old rifles.

When my Dad died I ended up with his sporterized SMLE which he did a lot of hunting with in the 1950's to 1960's in Canterbury where he had access to a property in Lees Valley I think the owner of the property's name was Less Burnett. Dad used to reckon that in summer he would hop on his motor bike after knocking off work and ride up to the valley with the rifle over his back and reckon he could have a deer well before dark. It had a parker hale aperture site adjustable for windage and elevation, initially he shot it right hand, but when that eye weakened he swapped over and shot it left hand - something the feels so uncomfortable to me. Eventually he put a 4x Nikko Sterling scope on it that I gave him but I can't remember if he went back to shooting with his right eye. He could shoot pretty well with it - I can remember him knocking goats off a bluff up behind the bach shooting off his knees would have been 1970's - I have since ranged these at 400m+ he said he was taught to shoot when he had to do compulsory military training in the 1950's after leaving school.

It spent along time in the ceiling space above their garage - when I got the rifle I could see a long dark patch half way down the barrel and no amount of cleaning made any difference took it to the range and could hardly hit a A4 sheet of paper at 50m.

It would be cool to get the old cannon shooting again - could anyone suggest the best place to look at picking up a replacement barrel ?

Wait for a cheap sporter to pop up on trademe and go inspect the barrel. New ones are pretty expensive and usually come from USA.

Originally Posted by AMac

Great thread - the 3 O is such a part of hunting history in NZ great to see such enthusiasm for the old rifles.

When my Dad died I ended up with his sporterized SMLE which he did a lot of hunting with in the 1950's to 1960's in Canterbury where he had access to a property in Lees Valley I think the owner of the property's name was Less Burnett. Dad used to reckon that in summer he would hop on his motor bike after knocking off work and ride up to the valley with the rifle over his back and reckon he could have a deer well before dark. It had a parker hale aperture site adjustable for windage and elevation, initially he shot it right hand, but when that eye weakened he swapped over and shot it left hand - something the feels so uncomfortable to me. Eventually he put a 4x Nikko Sterling scope on it that I gave him but I can't remember if he went back to shooting with his right eye. He could shoot pretty well with it - I can remember him knocking goats off a bluff up behind the bach shooting off his knees would have been 1970's - I have since ranged these at 400m+ he said he was taught to shoot when he had to do compulsory military training in the 1950's after leaving school.

It spent along time in the ceiling space above their garage - when I got the rifle I could see a long dark patch half way down the barrel and no amount of cleaning made any difference took it to the range and could hardly hit a A4 sheet of paper at 50m.

It would be cool to get the old cannon shooting again - could anyone suggest the best place to look at picking up a replacement barrel ?

Has it got a mid-barrel bulge? You'd feel the different resistance to a brush as you push/pull it through. The dark section of the bore is usually caused by pitting, not bulging.

Before doing anything extreme to the barrel, don't write the bore off until you shoot good ammunition through it, not some old milsurp. Rifles usually age well but their ammunition less so. Also, the dark middle of the bore may have been present even when the rifle was a tack driver, it does not happen overnight even if the rifle lies unloved for 20 years.

I'd happily sell you a used replacement barrel, but ... caveat emptor ... will it shoot any better? Don't buy a car or a milsurp barrel from a friend. To get a dark old milsurp bore shooting better, first look into lead lapping.

Article: "Lapping a Rifle Barrel", Shooting Times, September 23, 2010.

Originally Posted by dogmatix

My 42 Longbranch No4Mk1* is 2 groove. Shoots stupidly accurately.

Here's my 1917 III* sporter mentioned earlier in the thread..

Attachment 175678

My first fullbore range rifle was a 2 groove Longbranch. I was never disadvantaged by it being 2 groove and it shot well at all ranges. Our club shot out to 800 yards. Other club members had imported A J Parkers (some purchased on trips to the UK) and Fulton Regulated. Also many imported Ball Burnished barrels to rebarrel their rifles.
My 2 groover was virtually brand new barrel wise and only had some stock damage from square bashing. Paid £5.00 ex Linton Army Camp. Those were the days.

I later shot with a Fulton Regulated 1954 Fazakerley.

Originally Posted by Cordite

Has it got a mid-barrel bulge? You'd feel the different resistance to a brush as you push/pull it through. The dark section of the bore is usually caused by pitting, not bulging.

Before doing anything extreme to the barrel, don't write the bore off until you shoot good ammunition through it, not some old milsurp. Rifles usually age well but their ammunition less so. Also, the dark middle of the bore may have been present even when the rifle was a tack driver, it does not happen overnight even if the rifle lies unloved for 20 years.

I'd happily sell you a used replacement barrel, but ... caveat emptor ... will it shoot any better? Don't buy a car or a milsurp barrel from a friend. To get a dark old milsurp bore shooting better, first look into lead lapping.

Article: "Lapping a Rifle Barrel", Shooting Times, September 23, 2010.

Thanks Cordite - no bulge its pitting I think. Used modern ammo not milsurp. Lapping would seem a good step unfortunately living in a town house I am not really set up for that sort of thing. Maybe a clean with an abrasive of some sought - its it JB paste that is talked about when the topic of cleaning up barrels comes up? Also on reflection I have only ever viewed the barrel as being the problem - never looked at the scope or mounts which could be the issue just as easily. Might give her another clean, pop a better scope on her grab 20 rounds of new ammo and have another try next time I am at the range.

It would be sweet to get it shooting again, I could keep it at the bach that Dad built 1972 and maybe one day nail one of the deer that are coming through these days during winter ! Neighbour rang Thursday to say they just arrived into the bay and found their lawn is covered in hoof marks like a cattle yard and all the agapanthus eaten down to stubs. Reckon there is a herd of them around.

Cheers

AMac

Greetings AMac,
I think you said that the rifle is scoped. If so cutting a couple of inches of the barrel and re crowning could work wonders. Way cheaper than replacing the barrel.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings AMac,
I think you said that the rifle is scoped. If so cutting a couple of inches of the barrel and re crowning could work wonders. Way cheaper than replacing the barrel.
Regards Grandpamac.

Hi Grandpamac

Thought of that but the dark area if nicely half way down for a good 150 mm so not much left after chopping.

Cheers

AMac

Greetings All,
With this thread now up to 230 posts it would be safe to say that there is still interest in hunting with a .303 even if largely ceremonial. Most of those posting seem to have a few years on the clock and may need a scope to be confident on taking a shot in what appears to us to be gloomy conditions. Scoping Lee Enfields is a bit tricky so I thought I should share what little I have learnt over the years.
No1 rifles have usually been scoped using the Parker Hale base made for that purpose. One that I had done many years ago had high rings and I had always assumed that this was needed for the bolt to clear the scope. There was a No1 bolt in the cupboard and a couple of No 4 rifles so a check was made.

The No4 bolt is on the left and the No1 on the right. I popped the No4 bolt into its rifle and there was plenty of clearance so I screwed the bolt head of the No1 bolt and here it is in the No4.

The scope is a 2.5 power Lyman and the base is a No1 base that has been modified to fit the No4. It is quite rigid and shoots well and maintains its zero. It looks as though the low rings could be used for some scopes on the No 1. Check and see.
I have never liked the Parker Hale bases for the No4 as they seem to be lacking in rigidity. A rail type base modified to fit the bridge would seem preferable. A barrel mounted scout type scope would be better still.
Others may wish to respond with their scope solutions for the .303.
Regards Grandpamac.

@grandpamac

Removed the PH rail, instead put a mini red dot on a short length of weaver rail placed over the chamber, using the PH screw holes. Not sure you can call it a scout configuration as it's not a telescopic sight. Overall more elegant, beats iron sights, and stripper clips can be used again.

Originally Posted by Cordite

@grandpamac

Removed the PH rail, instead put a mini red dot on a short length of weaver rail placed over the chamber, using the PH screw holes. Not sure you can call it a scout configuration as it's not a telescopic sight. Overall more elegant, beats iron sights, and stripper clips can be used again.

Greetings @Cordite,
I thought about red dot sights but have no experience with them so made no comment. Glad to hear it is working for you.
Regards Grandpamac.

Well I scored a Lee Loader for the old 303 so am looking to start reloading for it again. Trust me to begin reloading when powder is as common as rocking horse s**t.... Anyway; powder's "meant" to be arriving next month.

I don't suppose anyone has a pdf or a jpeg of a modern 303 Lee Loader powder chart? There is one pic in a thread on the forum but it's too small to see. The model I have is older and many of the powders seem to be obsolete. I used to use IMR4895 in it shooting Hornady 174gr round noses. It was a minimum load as I used it originally as a pig bail gun (16.5inch barrel I think). But it sure knocked over deer and pigs too!

I scored a box of Speer Hot-Cor 150 to use in it. The last box Gunworks had so I'm interested to see what it'll shoot like with them. It likes Highland 150 factory ammo. I'm thinking of picking up a set of Hornady Balance Beam scales too for experimentation. I was thinking about ADI 2206h or 2208 for it. But I see the ADI site doesn't have load data on it now; you have to buy the manual

When I was in my 20's I used to load for the 303 and 270. I used a Lee Loader for the 303 and a press for the 270. I stupidly sold all my reloading gear when on a bit of a hunting hiatus.... I also stupidly sold my Ruger M77 270 then too. Something I've regretted all of these years... Hindsight is wonderful.... Could never have sold the three-oh though! I bought it when I was 18; so have had it for over 40-years. If I had the m77 it would be 40-years old too......

I used IMR4895 in the 303 and H4831 for the 270. Now I have a 308, 223 and 303 but will probably only handload for the 303. More for the fun than anything else. I quite like the idea of shooting a goat/pig/deer with handloads through a 77-year old rifle and then processing, smoking and curing etc everything from it. Sounds silly, but will be fun.

Originally Posted by bumblefoot

Well I scored a Lee Loader for the old 303 so am looking to start reloading for it again. Trust me to begin reloading when powder is as common as rocking horse s**t.... Anyway; powder's "meant" to be arriving next month.

I don't suppose anyone has a pdf or a jpeg of a modern 303 Lee Loader powder chart? There is one pic in a thread on the forum but it's too small to see. The model I have is older and many of the powders seem to be obsolete. I used to use IMR4895 in it shooting Hornady 174gr round noses. It was a minimum load as I used it originally as a pig bail gun (16.5inch barrel I think). But it sure knocked over deer and pigs too!

I scored a box of Speer Hot-Cor 150 to use in it. The last box Gunworks had so I'm interested to see what it'll shoot like with them. It likes Highland 150 factory ammo. I'm thinking of picking up a set of Hornady Balance Beam scales too for experimentation. I was thinking about ADI 2206h or 2208 for it. But I see the ADI site doesn't have load data on it now; you have to buy the manual

When I was in my 20's I used to load for the 303 and 270. I used a Lee Loader for the 303 and a press for the 270. I stupidly sold all my reloading gear when on a bit of a hunting hiatus.... I also stupidly sold my Ruger M77 270 then too. Something I've regretted all of these years... Hindsight is wonderful.... Could never have sold the three-oh though! I bought it when I was 18; so have had it for over 40-years. If I had the m77 it would be 40-years old too......

I used IMR4895 in the 303 and H4831 for the 270. Now I have a 308, 223 and 303 but will probably only handload for the 303. More for the fun than anything else. I quite like the idea of shooting a goat/pig/deer with handloads through a 77-year old rifle and then processing, smoking and curing etc everything from it. Sounds silly, but will be fun.

hold the line caller.....

If you want ADI load data it’s here

Data – Rifle – ADI World Class Powders and Ammunition

BULLET WEIGHT
150 GR. HDY SP
CASE
REMINGTON
PRIMER
FEDERAL 210, LARGE RIFLE
Starting Load Maximum Loads
Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
Hodgdon BL-C(2) BUY NOW 0.312" 2.995" 43.0 2,502 34,000 CUP 48.0 2,756 39,200 CUP
Hodgdon CFE 223 BUY NOW 0.312" 2.995" 40.9 2,558 38,100 PSI 44.0 2,699 45,900 PSI
Hodgdon H335 BUY NOW 0.312" 2.995" 37.0 2,430 34,700 CUP 42.0 2,706 43,100 CUP
Hodgdon H4895 BUY NOW 0.312" 2.995" 36.0 2,447 40,300 CUP 40.0 2,627 43,600 CUP
Hodgdon Varget BUY NOW 0.312" 2.995" 39.0 2,458 39,600 CUP 43.0 2,656 42,700 CUP