Thread: Resurgence of interest in the old "Three Oh"?

hold the line caller...AGAIN......will dig out OLD ADI manual and new adi manual

actually my old one is mulwex...1986
303 brit 150grn projectile41grs ar2206 43grs ar2208

newer one 2010
303 brit 150grn projectile AR2206H start 36grn------40grns max
and,and,and AR2206....NO H
SAME START or 36grns--------39.5grns maximum
ar2208 39grns start--------43grns max

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

actually my old one is mulwex...1986
303 brit 150grn projectile41grs ar2206 43grs ar2208

newer one 2010
303 brit 150grn projectile AR2206H start 36grn------40grns max
and,and,and AR2206....NO H
SAME START or 36grns--------39.5grns maximum
ar2208 39grns start--------43grns max

@micky_Duck, sorry mate, that does not make them the same powder. May be close, may have the same charge range for a particular calibre but that still does not make them the same powder. Pedantic? sure. An issue with this calibre, looks like not. Still does not make AR2206H the successor/replacement for AR2206. But, moving right along....

1/2grn different in .223 for 55 grn pill
same at 69 grn pill

22-250 70grn pill same start 1.5grn diffeence max


point Im making is that IF YOU FOLLOWING GOOD RELOADING PRACTICE eg starting low and working up...or just running with mild load...it will make no difference worth a damn...in fact I would go so far as to say if you dont fcuk around with a chronograph you would never in a million years pick a difference....
same thing happened when the folks at ADI changed AR 2213 into AR 2213SC.....folks got all antsy about data...all they did was cut it shorter sticks..thus the SC=short cut

made for easier metering in spoons and throwers.

look up data for 2213 and the hogdgon equivilent...and data will be higher for the Hogdgon powder yet it is made in same place just put in same jugs with different label.
for this fella in his 303 brit with LEE spoon mild loads it wont matter a fig.

303 brit same start .5 grn diference at maximum with 150 grn projectile
1 and 1.5 with 180grn
1 grn with 125 grn

Greetings Micky, Jhon and Mimms,
I ran some test loads that included AR2206, AR2206H and others in my .308 last year. In every case AR2206 was faster than AR2206H. With the 125 grain Speer TNT AR2206 was almost as fast as BM8208. I used 47 grains of each and the velocities were BM8208 2,948 fps, AR2206 2,938 fps and AR2206H 2,902 fps. With the 150 grain Hornady Interlok and 44 grains of each powder gave AR2206 2,698 fps, AR2206H 2,674 fps, IMR 4064 2,656 fps and AR2208 2,564 fps. With the 165 grain Hornady Interlock and 43 grains of each powder gave AR2206 2,585 fps, A2206H 2,575 fps, IMR4064 2,443 fps and AR2208 2,424 fps. Cases were new Winchester for the 125 and 150 projectiles and CAC for the 165's. Clearly the loads for the slower powders can be increased for more velocity but the aim of the test was verify the relative powder speeds. ADI has some recent loads for AR2206 and the .223 and .308 but some of their other loads are ancient and probably not pressure tested. As an aside I fired a fouling shot with 45 grains of IMR4064 with the 150 grain in a Federal case. These cases are heavy and the load has been cut from my usual 46 grains. This load gave 2,755 fps. While all the other loads gave velocity close to that predicted from the data once charge and barrel length had been adjusted for this load gave 70 fps more, equivalent to about 1.5 grains more powder. I have test loads for both the .223 and .308 using different weight cases which I will report on once shot.
Regards Grandpamac.

@mimms2 All in the words eh? And yet they are both current powders with their online web page, not their newsletter, stating that AR2206H lies between AR2206 and AR2208 with a different burnrate. And that AR2206 is still available but only in 1kg (or was it 1.5kg) bottles. Anyway, as Micky Duck has gone to some length to state, they are so close in this application they are interchangeable with the usual proviso of working up your own load. Fair enough.

I emailed Lee about an hour ago and got this reply. A very fast reply!

"Ross, The load data that we print is giving to us from the Powder companies with permission to print only, these cannot be downloaded or sent any other way than via mail. The part number that you are looking for is #CH1639-303B Charge Table and this is available for you to order at the enclosed link:

https://leeprecision.com/303b-charge-table.html

The part will come up as no charge for one of these and you will just be responsible for the shipping and handling.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Brenda"

Originally Posted by bumblefoot

I emailed Lee about an hour ago and got this reply. A very fast reply!

"Ross, The load data that we print is giving to us from the Powder companies with permission to print only, these cannot be downloaded or sent any other way than via mail. The part number that you are looking for is #CH1639-303B Charge Table and this is available for you to order at the enclosed link:

https://leeprecision.com/303b-charge-table.html

The part will come up as no charge for one of these and you will just be responsible for the shipping and handling.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Brenda"

The last time I took advantage of Lee's excellent service I needed a small part for a Press. I discovered that they have a wide range of parts for their gear that is free for the first one as a no questions asked warranty replacement. Just pay a small one off handling fee plus shipping. So I figured out the weight breaks on the shipping, went to my club mates and put together a grab bag of free items to make up the weight, then shared the shipping and handling cost. Several of us got parts we either needed or that would be useful to have on the shelf. It was worth spending some time on their site going thru the whole product range.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

actually my old one is mulwex...1986
303 brit 150grn projectile41grs ar2206 43grs ar2208

newer one 2010
303 brit 150grn projectile AR2206H start 36grn------40grns max
and,and,and AR2206....NO H
SAME START or 36grns--------39.5grns maximum
ar2208 39grns start--------43grns max

Greetings Micky and All,
Had a bit of a dig. The 41 grain load of AR2206 with the 150 grain in the .303 quoted in your 1986 pamphlet is a copy of the load in Cyril Waterworth's book for AR2201. This was a non canister powder that was both faster and slower than AR2206 depending on batch. The load dates from prior to 1970 and would definitely not been pressure tested. Both Mulwex and Nick Harvey copied these loads, Nick as late as his 6th edition, about 2003, which he claimed was completely revised. The ADI 3rd edition guide from 2000 gives a max load of 43 grains of AR2206 which seems a bit hot as they only list 44.5 of AR2206 in the .308 with the 155 grain. At the end of the day AR2206 is an orphan powder with modern load data only for the .308 and .223 for use in target rifles I expect. If we have a supply we can use it with care but if we don't then the data, such as it is, is only of historical interest. I definitely not use any AR2201 as it had a short storage life.
Regards Grandpamac.

Churchill 1945 SMLE , drilled and tapped an ati scope mount to the original mounting holes tapped into the reciever after it flew off and scoped me just need an old pecar scope and im away laughing

Re: digital calipers........ I've been looking at them gun shop sites. Is there any difference between a brand name set of digital calibres (Fuller etc) from Bunnings ($45)and one for $85 with the Hornady brand on it. I'd only be using it to check cartridge length when seating projectiles for the old 303. I have bought a Lee cartridge trimmer, bullet chamfer and primer pocket cleaner. Way cheaper for the Lee versions than the other brands. Some of the primer pocket cleaners were $35+ ! The Lee was $8........... And looked no different to what I used to have

Originally Posted by bumblefoot

Re: digital calipers........ I've been looking at them gun shop sites. Is there any difference between a brand name set of digital calibres (Fuller etc) from Bunnings ($45)and one for $85 with the Hornady brand on it. I'd only be using it to check cartridge length when seating projectiles for the old 303. I have bought a Lee cartridge trimmer, bullet chamfer and primer pocket cleaner. Way cheaper for the Lee versions than the other brands. Some of the primer pocket cleaners were $35+ ! The Lee was $8........... And looked no different to what I used to have

Don't know about the Bunnings calipers, ive got Frankford Arsenal ones and older Lymans which are comparable to the Hornady. Personally I don't know that they are all that flash, hard to get two readings the same in a row but maybe thats cause they are so finely tuned lol

I will venture an opinion on the primer pocket cleaner, unless you are a bench rest shooter (and then only maybe) they are a waste of time and money and effort. I bet you can't tell the difference on POI at any distance across 100 cleaned pockets vs 100 uncleaned. Plenty of other things will bugger you up long before primer pocket cleaning comes into play. The only thing I check for is when I've tumbled deprimed brass is that there is no media stuck in the flash hole. If there is an issue with your primer pockets it will more likely be to do with primer crimping and then you either ream them, swage them or chuck them. Having spent the money on a swager and done 1000 9mm for my long gone Ruger PCC I now have a redundant swager. Thank you Aunty. Any new crimped pockets I now chuck.

I used to always clean the primer pockets; and for $8 it's not a biggy I bought the 303 case trimmer, b pocket cleaner and chamfer tool for $35 total. Again; pretty cheap. I'm doing it for as cheap as possible for a simple set-up

Originally Posted by bumblefoot

I used to always clean the primer pockets; and for $8 it's not a biggy I bought the 303 case trimmer, b pocket cleaner and chamfer tool for $35 total. Again; pretty cheap. I'm doing it for as cheap as possible for a simple set-up

Greetings Bumblefoot,
I clean my primer pockets too but with a small screwdriver. I know it is supposed to be pointless but like doing it so why not. My callipers are a Mitutoyo metric set I bought 40 years ago. I doubt if I will need another set. I also have large and small primer pocket reamers. Handy as some commercial cartridges are now crimped.
Regards Grandpamac.