Thread: Roger Lentle on Radio New Zealand

Prof Roger Lentle: can wild deer and conservation coexist? https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/progr...vation-coexist

Worth a listen

Really really really bad performance by both. Bad faith interviewer ambushing an interviewee with questions he isn't able to answer well as he is uninformed. Totally unproductive discourse, take it back to 1985. It's a different world now.

Thanks for the link.
I thought it was pretty good discussion/debate myself.
How many decades of no middle ground between the two views? Not much is going to change in that respect. And yet the deer are still here.

The middle ground exists and is the active focus of those actually trying to make real progress in achieving management outcomes. This level of dialogue is unaccountably counterproductive to that real world paradigm. Whichever side of the ideological divide on this issue you sit on, you should be disappointed if you really understand the issues.

find the middle ground...controlled population,vegetation still doing its thing with animal numbers kept in check to ensure it stays that way.
if we can do it with ground shooters firstly and aerial control when n where needed.... search n destroy as 2nd to last resort.... dreaded green rain last resort
the biggest issue is to get parties t oagree to whats the happy medium...and Ive had first hand experience on just how hard that is to do..bugger it I will share.

small council block,old quarry with pines planted around it....one afternoon I observed some twigs n twittery types crouched down in grass getting all exccited..turns out that particular bit of ground is one of the very few areas around that hdnt ever been plowed and some rather rare grasses etc were found.
I had been trapping said block so already had relationship with council..
they decided some light controlled grazing of block was needed,I was asked to provide sheep.
we started with 6..NOT ENOUGH they said get more,so we built up a small flock..the block was cut in two..one half to be grazed,one left with no sheep..idea was to keep monitering areas and over time work out ideal density of sheep per ha to maintain the native grasses etc the sheep were there to help keep down exotic grasses..meanwhile the council decided the trees "had to go" to allow the other grasses etc to continue growing.
the twigs n twitter brigade were happy,sheep were happy,the lizard observers were happy...they even had all the matagouri bushes labeled..now here it gets weird/funny /sad... they were planting trees n shrubs around,great idea,I pointed out there was 8 good established plants along old fenceline and if they put new fence 2meters towards road the ycould replant the whole strip,sheep proof and be a seed bed..so in came contractor..pissbowled the old fence INCLUDING the 6 established mature seeding plants and put in new fence.... and nowhere to plant.
so...sheep doing fine,keeping grass down to below hay levels,then we get perfect storm..drought,the rabbit numbers exploded and had shelter in the rowed up pine slash,the sheep got ontop of grass and nibbled on the schrubbery..PANIC PANIC PANIC
I offered to reduce sheep numbers.I offered to put only a few in and take them out dead when required
I offered to keep them elsewhere and just poke a few in as and when needed
but nope...the yall had to go....ever tried to fit 30 sheep into a townsized freezer???
to say I was pissed off is putting it mildly..AND the whole experiment was abandoned...so its back to paying someone to mow around edges to prevent fire risk
now if they cant do control in a 20ha open country block..what show do we have of getting all interested parties to agree on bigger scale???

Originally Posted by gimp

The middle ground exists and is the active focus of those actually trying to make real progress in achieving management outcomes. This level of dialogue is unaccountably counterproductive to that real world paradigm. Whichever side of the ideological divide on this issue you sit on, you should be disappointed if you really understand the issues.

Is there even a middle ground within the hunting fraternity? Let alone between hunters and the all introduced species should be gone brigade?

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Originally Posted by gimp

Really really really bad performance by both. Bad faith interviewer ambushing an interviewee with questions he isn't able to answer well as he is uninformed. Totally unproductive discourse, take it back to 1985. It's a different world now.

Which questions are you referring too? I thought ol Kim was fair - she usually is a pretty straight shooter from the bits I have heard.

I found Lentle was a bit all over the show and probably lost a fair few people by lumping in the possums/rats with deer there.

Originally Posted by gimp

The middle ground exists and is the active focus of those actually trying to make real progress in achieving management outcomes. This level of dialogue is unaccountably counterproductive to that real world paradigm. Whichever side of the ideological divide on this issue you sit on, you should be disappointed if you really understand the issues.

The middle ground are the huge areas of afforestation occurring particularly on the East Coast of the NI . Wonderful breeding ground for deer. DOC can bomb 1080 over its estate but its a losing battle. Just bought Lentle's book. Great primer for young hunters.

I've worked a bit with Rodger a few years back and all over the place sounds about right. I sure wouldn't want him as my GP but he sure knew his stuff about digestion ( he was working on an artificial gut at the time to simulate the digestive process). An eccentric professor fits him to a tee
He nearly drowned when he tipped his land rover over into a creek and got stuck in it, but tells the story pretty nonchalantly

Originally Posted by HarryMax

Which questions are you referring too? I thought ol Kim was fair - she usually is a pretty straight shooter from the bits I have heard.

I found Lentle was a bit all over the show and probably lost a fair few people by lumping in the possums/rats with deer there.

I met him at the Rangi hut many years ago. Mate and I told him where we were going for a hunt and he said "you wont get anything there". We came back with a couple and he came back empty handed

We had cut down into the creek and hunted the faces from the rock pile a few hundred yards past the hut - had cut a track down there previously. He went way the hell out the back by the tarns somewhere It was just the luck of the draw probably but we thought we were pretty clever.

I have one of Lentle's books, second biggest load of rubbish I've read. I should give it to someone, but only an enemy....

Yes thats what I thought of one of those books. Unless I am mistaking him for Hans Willems...

Originally Posted by gimp

The middle ground exists and is the active focus of those actually trying to make real progress in achieving management outcomes. This level of dialogue is unaccountably counterproductive to that real world paradigm. Whichever side of the ideological divide on this issue you sit on, you should be disappointed if you really understand the issues.

I would argue that there is only ideology on one side of the divide...

There is a lot of middle management grey speak in that paragraph. You sound like you work for DOC.
Can you describe the middle ground that your referring to? Are DOC and hunters actually working together with a common goal regarding wild deer? What is the management outcome that is intended?

Personally Ive never found any middle ground with DOC apart from some field guys, (by some I mean two) and even they had to keep quiet about being hunters when they were in the office.

And isn't Roger Lentle like, 87 years old or something? They should have got the President of the deerstalkers to talk to her, I forget his name. Hes a good talker. Roger Lentle has a new book out, so this was probably set up because of that as publicity.

"They should have got the President of the deerstalkers to talk to her, I forget his name. Hes a good talker. Roger Lentle has a new book out, so this was probably set up because of that as publicity."
Exactly, it was a book promotion interview. However, he did make some valid points.

hmmmm new book,must kee pan eye out.