Thread: Shot placement on deer with ballistic tips??

Too true deer243 and Micky Duck, all second hand info. I've always known that if the deer's eye's are closed they're still alive, have seen a stag been dropped with 3 30-06 shots and get up and run as a kid, shot placement is key. Never had any issues with my trusty 308 and .243

Another reason to avoid that Nathan Foster site if he is now annealing his SST's. I suppose he has to though, he has recommended them in every calibre. Even in the cartridges he hasn't even shot.

I will mention here in passing, referring to an earlier post, that I have personally found it quite easy to kill deer with a .270. I cannot imagine the deer I could not kill with one.


I have only used Nosler Ballistic Tips in .308 or just at targets so cant say too much about them except that they do seem quite accurate.

I have used the Hornady SST bullet in different calibers, and I do not use it anymore, because it seems to blow up quickly, to the point of shotgunning apart. I shoot things fairly up close so there is no need for 'special' bullets really. I used some TTSX's but haven't found them to kill deader than anything else, so am leery of the price, as I am of other premiums, like Partitions, Accubonds, Interbonds and the like.

I tend to shoot for a high shoulder shot if I can get it, out of habit now, simply because they drop on the spot and I don't like looking for them. It's really a spine shot, but frags of bullet and bone will take out lungs too. It works fine . But you have to watch them though as a you can get a bullet that will go under the spine but not touch vital organs, even if it drills holes in the top of the shoulder blade...they will drop to the shot, and then pop up again later...so its not foolproof.
But once you are up on the anatomy you can solve problems with bullets and that just comes from experience and a few autopsies. My old man always liked to know what the bullet had done, and I inherited his messy curiosity. I am not above a headshot if I think I can do it (most uncommon though) and I will make a liver shot if I really have to. Rear end shots are actually spine shots as well, the way I do them, but I do not like them.

The moral of the story are deer are not hard to kill with a high powered rifle, with standard Interlocks, Hot Cors, Corelockts etc.

Originally Posted by The bomb

Look at Nathan fosters site

no thank you

Mr Foster epitomises the Americanisation of a segment of NZ's shooters and hunters. To the extent that he talks about calibers being suitable (or not) for shooting "Elk". Go figure.

That's because half his stuff is cribbed from the internet. He is also fond of saying that a particular bullet is specific to a certain weight of deer. As if the vitals of a bigger deer are not as vital. But I have no interest in running his site down. Best to hope that it is ignored. But someone really should explain to him that plagiarism is also stealing others ideas, and not only their words.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Mr Foster epitomises the Americanisation of a segment of NZ's shooters and hunters. To the extent that he talks about calibers being suitable (or not) for shooting "Elk". Go figure.

Wapiti dont count?

Wapiti don't count for what?

Just in regards to Tahrs post. We do have 'elk' in NZ.

Ah the internet, full of misconceptions and misunderstandings. it's not a big deal, but you have missed the meaning of his post.

Sorry, must be dumb please explain

now somewhere in the recesses of my memory one of the earlier KIWI hunter/writers mentioned this...not sure if it was Tony Orman,Phil Holden or even Lentle & Saxton.....waps/elk are no harder to kill than reds and some say even easier......same skin thickness,similar bone structure but BIGGER vital area. they were culled with .243s etc I sure dont see need for a 300 pooperscoopermagnum. Ive only shot one...in paddock with broken leg,used subsonic 151grn cast from the humble 7.62x39mm behind the ear LOL.

Never used SST's or Ballistic Tips as far as I know........but from reading about them here I have concluded ( I think?) that not all tipped projectiles are born equal. On a single occasion I shot a reasonably sized Fallow stag in the right place at around 50 meters with a 130 gn Accubond out of a .260. That was around 2006 and I haven't seen him since. Put the Accubond loads in the cupboard and haven't taken them out since, either.

Originally Posted by Gibo

Sorry, must be dumb please explain

Tahr was talking about the Americanisation of NZ and specifically hunting - in other words we call them Wapiti, which is proper, but in America they are called Elk and to call them that in New Zealand is to invite misunderstandings and associations that don't apply. Words are important. It's like bloody commentators on TV saying debut as "deboo" instead of "debuew." Please don't do this. It's totally unkiwi. It's even unenglish. It's practically French. I reckon all this all started up with Xena the Warrior Princess. Every actor in NZ had to learn to do an American accent hoping they could get on the show and too much of it stuck. Now the word "wapiti' is a North American Indian word (meaning "white deer") and yes of course, they are actually elk. We all know this. But in New Zealand we call them wapiti. That's how we are. And we wear shorts a lot, often with bare feet, and knock the caps of beer bottles with spatulas. That's what we do.

As for Nathan Foster, he has probably cribbed so much from other peoples articles on the internet, manufacturer's advertising, and internet forums, that he probably talks with an American accent. He certainly wields a lot of other people's opinions.

Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway

Tahr was talking about the Americanisation of NZ and specifically hunting - in other words we call them Wapiti, which is proper, but in America they are called Elk and to call them that in New Zealand is to invite misunderstandings and associations that don't apply. Words are important. It's like bloody commentators on TV saying debut as "deboo" instead of "debuew." Please don't do this. It's totally unkiwi. It's even unenglish. It's practically French. I reckon all this all started up with Xena the Warrior Princess. Every actor in NZ had to learn to do an American accent hoping they could get on the show and too much of it stuck. Now the word "wapiti' is a North American Indian word (meaning "white deer") and yes of course, they are actually elk. We all know this. But in New Zealand we call them wapiti. That's how we are. And we wear shorts a lot, often with bare feet, and knock the caps of beer bottles with spatulas. That's what we do.

As for Nathan Foster, he has probably cribbed so much from other peoples articles on the internet, manufacturer's advertising, and internet forums, that he probably talks with an American accent. He certainly wields a lot of other people's opinions.

Sweet as and thanks for the explanation. Turns out I ain't () dumb, just not easily offended by the word 'elk'

PS I call em waps too and have never bought into any of Nathans woffle.

ok Ive got to stick up for Nathan.
love him or hate him you cant deny he has done a lot to put info out there for people to read in one place,you dont have to agree with anything /everything he says or deny some of it is speculation or taken from other guys experiences to see there is a lot of good in the site itself.
for me PERSONALLY reading what the man has put out there has got me back on track accuracy wise to where I can now confidently shoot a deer out to 3-400 yards and my loads are a lot better than the "she'll be right" ones I was using. being a bush hobbit at heart a lot of what is written/printed in the site or books isnt really relevant to 30-50 yard shooting but it gives a bloody good place to start.
the article "hold that forend" might be a mismatch of plagurised bits n bobs with his spin on things chucked in but the technique sure as hell works for me and whats more MAKES SENSE.
he isnt anti suppressor or bipod or even the hug yourself/crossed arm hold ....it says as much in his books ,he just wants you to explore other options that might suit you better before buying into the "this way is best" B.S. that is out there
if you took the top 20 long range hunter/shooters from this country and got them all together they would all do things slightly differently but you could bet your life on the fact they would all do it THE SAME WAY EACH AND EVERY TIME. which is the key to getting accuracy.
some fellas love AMAX/ELD type projectiles others love flat or round nose jobbies
some guys like blonds and others like redheads...some even like other guys!!!! doesnt mean you are wrong just different.
Philip Holden is a much loved and respected writer from out deer culling past who when he was alive could shoot the nuts of a gnat with his .243 or the 25/06 he used in later years...if we all followed his teaching/preachings we would all be using sakos in .243 which doesnt suit everyones type of hunting...its not wrong just cause its different.
as for opinions on what is yours...well a certain Kiwi writer recently wrote a great book and put theory that big slow flat or round nose projectiles are best for bush work...cant argue with that but its not an origonal thought is it..... afterall its where we started out with firearms of black powder type,the early .303 loads were over 200 grns as were .30/06 loads and they sure sley red stags,but then again ranges were under 200 yards as open sights were the norm and rangefinders were possibly not even on naval vessels yet.
we have come along way in last 100 years and our gear is so much better but at end of day/range we still chucking a tiny piece of metal at a larger hunk of living breathing flesh,far better to go at it with as much informed choices as we can rather than blindly following the sheep infront of you.