Thread: TB in possums - not many if any

An article in Fridays ODT page 11 headline stated 70% of TB in cattle is caused by possums.

Originally Posted by BobGibson

An article in Fridays ODT page 11 headline stated 70% of TB in cattle is caused by possums.

Somebody is making up figures to push their own agenda then.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Kill 40% of a slow breeding native each drop and the predators are back in a year that's not difficult maths.

Hmmm speaking of made up figures...

But in all seriousness, im not a huge fan of 1080 myself, but there is no realistic alternative. Trapping easy country costs 2 or 3 times as much money, and isn't safe or even realistic at all in hard country. If you think 1080 is a conspiracy and is simply a case of "big business" then attempting to do it via trapping would have to be even "bigger business" and you're setting people up to fail (possum control is performance based - no pass equals no pay!).

Traping only gets one pest, e.g if you want to get rats, mice, possums, stoats....then you need four different trapping regimes to target each pest individually, and trapping rats and mice on a large scale simply isn't possible because rats and mice have such small home ranges you'd needs an impossible numbers of traps. The true cost would be the sum of all those meathods added together (rats, mice, possums, stoats...) $$$$.

1080 will do all of the above for a fraction of the cost. And its actually achievable, unlike trapping all those pests (rats, mice, possums ad stoats) which is fantasy.

Id love to see other methods used in the future, but if we're been realitic there's nothing even close to replacing it right now.

Kj

Originally Posted by Pengy

Haven't cured the common cold yet though

You get the common cold? not a good look for a penguin, I spose you call it sniffulas? Anyway thats a virus not a possum

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Somebody is making up figures to push their own agenda then.

70% of fcuk all is still fcuk all!!

Originally Posted by Maca49

70% of fcuk all is still fcuk all!!

Exactly. But if no control was done the problem can only compound. Think of it like money in the bank on compounding interest...a little, plus a little add up to a lot in a few decades. This happened last time tb vector control was reduced, going back to my father's quote "people have short memories", and this is especially so when issues aren't so obvious.

Kj

Originally Posted by kimjon

Hmmm speaking of made up figures...

But in all seriousness, im not a huge fan of 1080 myself, but there is no realistic alternative. Trapping easy country costs 2 or 3 times as much money, and isn't safe or even realistic at all in hard country. If you think 1080 is a conspiracy and is simply a case of "big business" then attempting to do it via trapping would have to be even "bigger business" and you're setting people up to fail (possum control is performance based - no pass equals no pay!).

Traping only gets one pest, e.g if you want to get rats, mice, possums, stoats....then you need four different trapping regimes to target each pest individually, and trapping rats and mice on a large scale simply isn't possible because rats and mice have such small home ranges you'd needs an impossible numbers of traps. The true cost would be the sum of all those meathods added together (rats, mice, possums, stoats...) $$$$.

1080 will do all of the above for a fraction of the cost. And its actually achievable, unlike trapping all those pests (rats, mice, possums ad stoats) which is fantasy.

Id love to see other methods used in the future, but if we're been realitic there's nothing even close to replacing it right now.

Kj

Excellent post

I actually agree with most of your post. But there is shit loads of country that I would consider not safe to send people to trap, that possums (rats, mice, stoats) live in. I goat hunted such areas, and was able to choose my route, ie. Keep myself realatively safe, but if trapping you need to put the traps every 20m or so regardless of terrain to be effective...this would not be safe in such areas.

Also the cost ($/ha) as you pointed out needs to be increased yet again, as trappers are not paid their worth...but that only increases the price per hectare, and widens the cost gap between trapping and aerial 1080.

Wasnt there an article a while back comparing the real cost of aerial 1080 operations with trapping? IIRC there was a trapping contractor who wanted a chance to compete and DOC wouldn't even look at his proposal, he was trying to make the point that the "aerial 1080 is much more cost effective" claim isn't necessarily based on real numbers.

Originally Posted by GravelBen

Wasnt there an article a while back comparing the real cost of aerial 1080 operations with trapping? IIRC there was a trapping contractor who wanted a chance to compete and DOC wouldn't even look at his proposal.

If you were to pick and choose a few examples I'm sure on some really small blocks you could make aerial 1080 look expensive and trapping seam comparable. But on anything other than a little easy to do block the gap will be considerable.

Also when making this comparison, you would need to add all the trapping costs for all the target pests, so a trapping contract for rats, mice and stoats to get a true overview of the costs

Kj

There has to be a better way than a random aerial bombardment of a poison over our country, nobody is looking for an alternative, there has to be a better way. Dave Ratcliffe successfully trapped Waipara for possums to stop the 1080 drops.

Originally Posted by Maca49

There has to be a better way than a random aerial bombardment of a poison over our country, nobody is looking for an alternative, there has to be a better way.

You'd think with all the years people have been against 1080 they would have nutted up a better idea but being nut jobs on the internet seems to be there #1 choice so far

Normal people think of problems to solutions. No point bitching here to us we're not changing things go complain to the people who need to hear it, have meetings come up with ideas on better methods, get decent publicity get more people to see things from your point of view ffs.

Ok well start Huis and trip NZ then? Toby I just get pissed with DOCs attutude to 1080. It certainly deserves an inquiry ,independent that is, in to what is going on, the blind dumping of this poison is just not on! Going into a Forrest as a tourist in NZ and being faced with a poison sign complete with a skull and cross bones is a bit of putting? We do this but won't have nuclear power? Fuck I know which ones safer!

Actually, the photographer of that sequence used a small fenced reserve area, set up the vine and the thrush nest. Yes THRUSH chicks. The whole deal is a setup. This has been proved to DoC.

Actually it is a similar scam to the greeny claims of native fuschia (Konini) being completely denuded of foliage by possums. Lots of photo's of this terrible assault on native bush were gleefully published.
However, the truth is that Konini is one of the few native trees in NZ that is deciduous, shedding it's leaves annually as a normal part of it's existence. Possums do like eating it, but the claims made by Forest and Bird that the denuding was caused by possum are incorrect and deliberately misleading. (Unless of course, their emotive bullshit simply overrode their ignorance of the facts.)
Similarly, there were claims made about devastation of Southern Rata, and kamahi being wrecked by possums. Southern Rata flowers intermittently with sometimes several years between flowerings, and damage to those trees and the Kamahi in the Ruahine was caused by snowstorms and wind storms.

We're lucky to have moaning old retired bastards like you @Woody keeping these guys "honest"! Keep up the good work!