Thread: TB in possums - not many if any

The possum eating a bird means nothing to me, its a side argument with little meaning to either way, its simply a distraction from bigger issues.

The "truth" about 1080 I'm sure is somewhere in the middle, like they say there's normally three sides to every story; your side, my side and the truth.

I don't make any living from 1080, it doesn't effect me either way. But my views on it remain the same, a necessary tool for the immediate future.

Kj

I am not a total ban 1080 advocate, I do think it has its place. But I also think it should not be used anywhere near as much as it is and virtually never total coverage from the air.

You only have to see the lies and propaganda for what it is to realize it has very little to do with conservation and everything to do with money.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

You only have to see the lies and propaganda for what it is to realize it has very little to do with conservation and everything to do with money.

That is correct but the propaganda will rule, have that proven and things may open up. Money and lots of it will always have it's plan B. No one in the 1080 industry will allow that to happen eh.

Originally Posted by kimjon

The possum eating a bird means nothing to me, its a side argument with little meaning to either way, its simply a distraction from bigger issues.

Kj

I think it increases the importance of reducing possum numbers, I'm sure we can all agree on that.

How best to do it is the big debate. Maybe as it's such a massive problem, a work for benefit scheme could involve possum eradication as one of the tasks and try to create a bigger fur industry for skins, plucked fur and baiting


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Originally Posted by smidey

I think it increases the importance of reducing possum numbers, I'm sure we can all agree on that.

How best to do it is the big debate. Maybe as it's such a massive problem, a work for benefit scheme could involve possum eradication as one of the tasks and try to create a bigger fur industry for skins, plucked fur and baiting


Sent from my workbench

Only problem with these schemes is that possum trapping is possibly one of the most demanding jobs there is if your doing it to get a performance result (<5%RTCI).

Getting someone who struggles to motivate themselves to even get out of bed and try and find a normal (easy) job, to step up and do one of the toughest jobs there is almost never works. I know this first hand as I once ran a task force green team of possum trappers many years ago, with 32 people go through my program over a 5 year period, each of them had the option of staying with the team in full time employment and working for a living. Only ONE lasted the 5 years, all the others choose to leave even though they knew their benefits would be cancelled for leaving! None of those who left had another job to go to, they all left because they hated it so much they would rather plead poverty, than work hard.

In all honesty, I cringe when I hear work for DOL schemes mentioned as a solution for pest control, its a gross over simplification to a very complicated issue.

No offence is intended by my reply, its just that I already know the outcome through experience....the hard way.

Kj

I could take you all to a spot that has never seen aerial 1080, where you can easily shoot a couple hundred possums on a good night, has an unknown rat population, and the bird song is actually deafening. There are literally hundreds of native birds flying around in the bush. My point, possums don't eat fucking birds.


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Originally Posted by JoshC

I could take you all to a spot that has never seen aerial 1080, where you can easily shoot a couple hundred possums on a good night, has an unknown rat population, and the bird song is actually deafening. There are literally hundreds of native birds flying around in the bush. My point, possums don't eat fucking birds.


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Very rare area that JC, proves a point. Will it last though? I for one would hope so. Lots of money could pass hands there no doubt. F***ing with nature just doesn't hit home to the money spinners,sad.

Originally Posted by doinit

Very rare area that JC, proves a point. Will it last though? I for one would hope so. Lots of money could pass hands there no doubt. F***ing with nature just doesn't hit home to the money spinners,sad.

Been like that for as long as I've been alive mate, so can't see it changing. It gets trapped regularly by a couple of locals, provides them with full time jobs thru the winter and has done for 30 plus years.

Originally Posted by JoshC

I could take you all to a spot that has never seen aerial 1080, where you can easily shoot a couple hundred possums on a good night, has an unknown rat population, and the bird song is actually deafening. There are literally hundreds of native birds flying around in the bush. My point, possums don't eat fucking birds.


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So photos and video aren't enough for you? You can't deny possums eat eggs and birds, the question is how many

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The image you posted is from an image company. Not a photo company or the dept of conservation.
One may want to research it a bit more before blindly believing a image on the Internet

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

The image you posted is from an image company. Not a photo company or the dept of conservation.
One may want to research it a bit more before blindly believing a image on the Internet

Haha that's the first time I ever saw that image. Your splitting hairs to back up your bullshit idea. You do some research and then tell me they don't, the video from 1993 a fake to?

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Originally Posted by smidey

So photos and video aren't enough for you? You can't deny possums eat eggs and birds, the question is how many

Sent from my workbench

Those photos are so set up it is not funny.

But in the same valley I could take you about 3 kms north, cross over the road into land administered by DoC, it's been aerial 1080's every 3-4 years for the last 15-20 years. The silence is deafening. It sure wasn't possums and rats eating birds that shut the place up.

Kimjon - you have brought out some good information about rats in this thread
We seem to be largely focused on possums and 1080 verses trapping - but we really should be asking what predators are doing the greatest damage to our birdlife - possums, rats, mustilids, cats, etc
I have read masses of information about 1080 and have changed from hating it to tolerating it until effective alternatives are found
I am retired and I have spent the last 12 months on a community service project - trying to create a safe environment where the birds can return to an 80 acre community reserve close to home
When I first went there to do native planting work - I couldn’t see or hear many birds so I figured something must be wrong - maybe possums or maybe rats - so I decided that would be my project and I got started on both of them
I found two other old fellas to help me - 68 and 84 and we are running trap and bait stations which we jointly visit two or three times each week
We are currently working on about 50 acres of tracked country with 50m gridlines for bait stations and traps
I think we have killed most of the possums (133 to date) but they will continue to infiltrate from the perimeters
But rats - they are a serious challenge - bait stations on approximately 50m gridlines - we started with Pestoff, then changed to Ditrac and after ten large buckets of that we figured we had them beat because the bait take slowed down - but they were still laying blue shit in our possum traps and stealing the possum bait - so they were happily living with Ditrac
Kiwi Hunter advised me to change to Contrac - they wolfed it like they were starving and after 5 large buckets and 60 new rat kill traps we seem to have slowed them down - but have we beaten them - I doubt it - they are still there and are being seen - but just getting more cunning - they will take bait out of the barrel of an A24 - right up to the trigger wire - then leave the rest and they are getting trap shy
Then there are the mice - take out most of the rats and the balance of power shifts - we then had a mouse plague - rats must consume large numbers of mice and I can tell you that mice live quite happily on Ditrac - blue mouse shit in all the possum traps - and of course rats eat dead rats - we are still seeing rat heads and parts of bodies in traps
So if rats can eat rats - see the pictures - what do you think the bastards can do with birds eggs or baby birds just out of the eggs - dead meat for rats
But the birds are definitely returning - Quail have had an amazing breeding season - the buggars are everywhere in flocks of 20 to 30 - the usual natives such as Tui and Fantail are now prolific along with the usual domestic birds - and we are starting to see a few Kereru - we just have to create a safe environment for the next breeding season in a few months
So what has changed - most of the possums, rats and hedgehogs have gone - which was the most destructive for birdlife? - I don’t know but I doubt there is any point in taking out one bird predator without the others - and then of course there are mustilids which are very elusive and simply refuse to enter our 15 box traps - and bloody cats from the numerous neighboring properties
So the end of the rant - maybe 1080 will clean up the reduced number of possums that now don’t seem to have TB and maybe it will clean up the rats along with some of our birds - God only knows because I don’t think anyone else has the total answer - and I am not sure that many hunters really care about bird predator control because I don’t see many reports of hunters actually doing it
Trapped rats in last few weeks - I can thoroughly recommend Snap E rat traps - fantastic and don’t break like some others we use

Originally Posted by JoshC

Those photos are so set up it is not funny.

But in the same valley I could take you about 3 kms north, cross over the road into land administered by DoC, it's been aerial 1080's every 3-4 years for the last 15-20 years. The silence is deafening. It sure wasn't possums and rats eating birds that shut the place up.

This Is my problem with 1080d bush, its silent and after 3-5 years or so as the bird life is just starting to come back(except the slow breeders) they do it again and kill what is left!
Bush that is not 1080d in my experience is alive with birds pests and all.

Originally Posted by time out

Kimjon - you have brought out some good information about rats in this thread
We seem to be largely focused on possums and 1080 verses trapping - but we really should be asking what predators are doing the greatest damage to our birdlife - possums, rats, mustilids, cats, etc
I have read masses of information about 1080 and have changed from hating it to tolerating it until effective alternatives are found
I am retired and I have spent the last 12 months on a community service project - trying to create a safe environment where the birds can return to an 80 acre community reserve close to home
When I first went there to do native planting work - I couldn’t see or hear many birds so I figured something must be wrong - maybe possums or maybe rats - so I decided that would be my project and I got started on both of them
I found two other old fellas to help me - 68 and 84 and we are running trap and bait stations which we jointly visit two or three times each week
We are currently working on about 50 acres of tracked country with 50m gridlines for bait stations and traps
I think we have killed most of the possums (133 to date) but they will continue to infiltrate from the perimeters
But rats - they are a serious challenge - bait stations on approximately 50m gridlines - we started with Pestoff, then changed to Ditrac and after ten large buckets of that we figured we had them beat because the bait take slowed down - but they were still laying blue shit in our possum traps and stealing the possum bait - so they were happily living with Ditrac
Kiwi Hunter advised me to change to Contrac - they wolfed it like they were starving and after 5 large buckets and 60 new rat kill traps we seem to have slowed them down - but have we beaten them - I doubt it - they are still there and are being seen - but just getting more cunning - they will take bait out of the barrel of an A24 - right up to the trigger wire - then leave the rest and they are getting trap shy
Then there are the mice - take out most of the rats and the balance of power shifts - we then had a mouse plague - rats must consume large numbers of mice and I can tell you that mice live quite happily on Ditrac - blue mouse shit in all the possum traps - and of course rats eat dead rats - we are still seeing rat heads and parts of bodies in traps
So if rats can eat rats - see the pictures - what do you think the bastards can do with birds eggs or baby birds just out of the eggs - dead meat for rats
But the birds are definitely returning - Quail have had an amazing breeding season - the buggars are everywhere in flocks of 20 to 30 - the usual natives such as Tui and Fantail are now prolific along with the usual domestic birds - and we are starting to see a few Kereru - we just have to create a safe environment for the next breeding season in a few months
So what has changed - most of the possums, rats and hedgehogs have gone - which was the most destructive for birdlife? - I don’t know but I doubt there is any point in taking out one bird predator without the others - and then of course there are mustilids which are very elusive and simply refuse to enter our 15 box traps - and bloody cats from the numerous neighboring properties
So the end of the rant - maybe 1080 will clean up the reduced number of possums that now don’t seem to have TB and maybe it will clean up the rats along with some of our birds - God only knows because I don’t think anyone else has the total answer - and I am not sure that many hunters really care about bird predator control because I don’t see many reports of hunters actually doing it
Trapped rats in last few weeks - I can thoroughly recommend Snap E rat traps - fantastic and don’t break like some others we use

Great work @time out.