Thread: Thar extermination

Not sure if these will work. For anyone wanting a bit of extra info on how the count was done. Have a couple of excel data sets for 2016 and 2017 but unsure how to add them in.

Changes to Monitoring of Tahr Jan 2017 2.pdf
Item 2 - Tier 1 Himalayan tahr abundance monitoring protocol.pdf
Item 5 - Tahr density estimates from aerial surveys.pdf

Just as an "outside the square" input -

People bang on that tahr are bad and that we need to exterminate them in order to "protect the alpine environment" - as quoted from Winston Peters' reply to the recent barrage. But are they? Are they really bad for the alpine environment? I admit I'm not a scientist and, no, I've not studied in depth the upper reaches of the Mt. Cook National Park, but the walking I've done after tahr hasn't shown me an environment that's devastated by unwelcome pests.

What if we assume for a minute that the research carried out to date has been completed by scientists in the paid employ of the government. Surely a most significant portion of any research must have been completed in this way. Or if we assume that the research carried out by non-government funded people were doing so with their own predetermined bias? Some may think me just a cynical old bastard and have no doubt, I am, but I've heard stories over the years of researchers being told to rewrite their summaries in order to tone down certain points of view - because payment for the work done depended on obtaining a favourable outcome to the cause.

What if pro-hunting groups did their own research and released "clear proof" that the environment benefits from the animals that enhabit the area? Looking at my own back yard I see clear proof that the complete extermination of the wild goat herds that once roamed the area was foolhardy - the wilding pines and other invasive plants are taking over at an alarming rate. In 5 years we've gone from tussocks to 10 foot tall pines. My high school biology lessons taught me that animal numbers are directly proportional to food availability so if the numbers are high is that not a clear indication that the environment is healthy?

If their range is limited - and clearly it is limited not only geographically but also by the tahr's preferred altitude band - then would it not make sense to define their limit of migration, exterminate outside those borders and allow nature and hunters to look after the rest? By my observation the number of hunters chasing tahr has increased significantly in the last 25 years and the resource is becoming more and more valuable as time goes on. With the advent of extreme sports we see a crossover where adrenaline and technology empowers people to be more comfortable hunting in the harsh Southern Alps. The numbers are going to balance out one way or another.

Wholesale extermination to an idealistic value determined by biased reseach in an era of ignorance without reconsidering the possibility of new evidence can only lead to the fullfilment of an unbalanced argument. The dreamers win - those who believe in the fantasy that we can turn back time.

Now that fake news is a "thing", maybe its time to denounce previous reseach as "fake news" and go out and prove tahr are good for the environment.

Originally Posted by planenutz

What if pro-hunting groups did their own research and released "clear proof" that the environment benefits from the animals that enhabit the area?

Not exactly "clear proof", but this is perhaps a start - https://www.facebook.com/huntersclub...06267502/?t=69

Filmed in an area that had plenty of Tahr 12 months ago, probably not so many now though...

Exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about @The_Hunters_Club , presenting evidence like this isn't in the best interests of tree-huggers who are trying to push for extermination so its easy to ignore it and instead take photos of chewed-off plants. I bet there are more examples out there too.

We need to present this as "proof of the benefits" - and who can say we're any less correct than those who would disagree?

Couple letters from me. Just have to sign and put in the envelope.
Hope you all can do the same.

Originally Posted by kiwijames

Couple letters from me. Just have to sign and put in the envelope.
Hope you all can do the same.

What sort of things did you put in the letter's? Not sure what to put in them. But I know that they're the best way as they have to reply in kind.

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Originally Posted by Russian 22.

What sort of things did you put in the letter's? Not sure what to put in them. But I know that they're the best way as they have to reply in kind.

Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

Awesome, sent some myself. Postage is free to parliament (well I guess we pay for it in tax money).

Take a look at the Give a Little page too.
Hunting and Fishing NZ donation of $10,000.00. You little beauty.

I think it is critical that we raise funds (by the likes of the TF Give a Little page and membership of hunting organisations) to have ideas and observations like Moa Hunters and The Hunters club confirmed by robust science. Science and hunting may seem like unusual bedfellows to many NZ hunters but overseas they go hand in hand - because they (overseas hunters) value their game animals. Its about time we grew up (as a nation of hunters) and did the same.

We need "conversation" to resolve the divides that fracture and weaken our various hunting ideologies (e.g. meat versus trophy versus guided etc.)

There is absolutely no doubt that "money talks" when it comes to politics, and since hunters will never have voter numbers to change things, we are going to have to pay if we want to even maintain the status quo.

I'm sure everyone else who sent emails requesting information from the "Hon." Eugenie Sage got back their generic reply today as well. This was what i recieved as an attachment to the message.

"Tēnā koe

On behalf of Hon Eugenie Sage, thank you for your email regarding Himalayan tahr. Please find a response from the Minister attached.

Ngā mihi"

Originally Posted by Projects

I'm sure everyone else who sent emails requesting information from the "Hon." Eugenie Sage got back their generic reply today as well. This was what i recieved as an attachment to the message.

"Tēnā koe

On behalf of Hon Eugenie Sage, thank you for your email regarding Himalayan tahr. Please find a response from the Minister attached.

Ngā mihi"

Attachment 95624
Attachment 95625

I wonder if there is any significance in the statement:

"...even after this control work is done there will still be ample tahr to sustain guided tahr hunting and tourist ventures."

No reference to recreational hunting?

https://www.facebook.com/hunting.com...6277576141197/

I wonder if this is someone trying to make a quick buck off the back of the proposed cull? Hate to imagine the amount of gut/arse shot animals running round after a rookie chopper shooter has had a go.

Originally Posted by McNotty

https://www.facebook.com/hunting.com...6277576141197/

I wonder if this is someone trying to make a quick buck off the back of the proposed cull? Hate to imagine the amount of gut/arse shot animals running round after a rookie chopper shooter has had a go.

Bloody awful, and we need Kiwi's to be aware of this sort of commercialization too. I posted this up on their page but I doubt it'll stay long . . .

"This is an appalling commercialization of our NZ game animals, bad enough that they have to be culled, completely unacceptable that it is offered as a moneymaking venture called "hunting". To anyone considering this be assured you will be seen as a pariah in NZ hunting circles and hopefully tossed head first out of any pub in the land. Don't be fooled into paying for this is you call yourself a hunter. I (and most anybody on the NZ Hunting and Fishing Forum) will gladly point you in the right direction to hunt (or cull) our game if you wish."

Originally Posted by McNotty

https://www.facebook.com/hunting.com...6277576141197/

I wonder if this is someone trying to make a quick buck off the back of the proposed cull? Hate to imagine the amount of gut/arse shot animals running round after a rookie chopper shooter has had a go.

Piss poor shooting, not a good look and I wonder if he was licensed to be using an E Cat rifle?

Originally Posted by outdoorlad

Piss poor shooting, not a good look and I wonder if he was licensed to be using an E Cat rifle?

Probably an Aussie lol. So hell no.

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