Thread: Thar extermination

Just found this on the DOC website and highlighted a few interesting points

How will the control operations be done?
A meeting with the Tahr Liaison Group was held in Christchurch on 29 August 2018. The following approach to reduce the tahr population has been proposed:

NZDA, Safari Club International and Tahr Interest Group work together with their members to remove at least 2,500 tahr from public conservation land and provide evidence and data.

WARO operators (who are concessioned) to remove 3,000 tahr from public conservation land and provide evidence and data.

AATH operators to remove 1,500 tahr from public conservation land using offsets and provide evidence and data.

Professional hunting guides to remove 500 tahr from public conservation land and provide evidence and data.

DOC to remove 10,000 tahr from public conservation land and provide evidence and data (excluding Westland/Tai Poutini and Aoraki Mt Cook National Parks).

About DOC's control operations:

DOC control operations will initially focus on Management Units 1 (Rakaia-Rangitata) and 3 (Gammack-Two Thumb) before the breeding starts mid-November 2018. Control would then move onto the other management units through the year. The control operation will remove tahr from above 305 metres (1,000 feet) in these management units.
The 10,000 animals DOC will remove, will be made up of 3,000 male tahr and 7,000 “other” tahr which will be a mix of nannies and juveniles (excluding animals removed from the Westland/Tai Poutini and Aoraki Mt Cook National Parks).
DOC control operations will target the highest density areas in the management units.
DOC will not undertake control operations in any management units between 15 November 2018 and 15 January 2019. DOC will undertake control operations in the Northern and Southern Exclusion Zones and Risk Zones over this period and all tahr will be targeted in these zones as normal.
DOC will resume aerial control operations after 15 January 2019 as per the tactical plan if they have not achieved their target of 10,000 animals.
All tahr will be targeted in the Westland/Tai Poutini and Aoraki Mt Cook National Parks are per the 1993 Himalayan Tahr Control Plan.
DOC will stop control operations in the Wilderness Areas by 30 March 2019.
DOC will undertake control operations to recover any shortfall of animals not achieved by 1 May 2019.
How long will the control operations take?
Control operations will continue until the estimated number of tahr are below the maximum limit specified in the Himalayan Tahr Control Plan. The programme will be reviewed in April 2019.

Where have control operations taken place?
DOC acknowledges the contributions made by recreational hunters. For hunters that are planning to go tahr hunting on public conservation land, DOC will be posting the following information on its website, so you can make an informed decision on where you would like to go hunting:

Tahr sightings maps: The information on this page will show where tahr have been seen. There will be a map and supporting information showing the helicopter flightpath and the location of animal/s.
Tahr control maps: The information on this page will show where aerial control operations have occurred. There will be a map and supporting information showing the helicopter flightpath and the location of control work.
Ground control operations: The information on this page will have post trip reports on how many animals were removed as part of any authorised ground control operations on public conservation land.
Tahr ballot results: This information will be posted after the summer and winter tahr ballot periods have closed for the Hooker/Landsborough and Adams Wilderness Areas.
Tahr sightings maps
The maps below show helicopter flight paths and waypoints where animals were sighted.

The tables show the number of tahr sighted at each waypoint and the altitude.

Tahr sightings maps - Aoraki Mount Cook operation
Management Unit (MU) Date of operation Maps Tahr sightings information
16 – 21 June 2018 Overview map (PDF, 1,361) (opens in new window)
MU-5 16 June 2018 Lower Ben Ohau Range map (PDF, 1,192K) (opens in new window) Lower Ben Ohau Range table (PDF, 81K) (opens in new window)
MU-5 17 June 2018 Mid Ben Ohau Range map (PDF, 1,056K) (opens in new window) Mid Ben Ohau Range table (PDF, 81K) (opens in new window)
MU-5 18 June 2018 Hopkins River map (PDF, 1,205K) (opens in new window) Hopkins River table (PDF, 80K) (opens in new window)
MU-4b 18 June 2018 Hooker River map (PDF, 1,414K) (opens in new window) Hooker River table (PDF, 90K) (opens in new window)
MU-3 19 June 2018 Gamack Range map (PDF, 1,464K) (opens in new window) Garmack Range table (PDF, 95K) (opens in new window)
MU-4b 20 June 2018 Murchison River map (PDF, 1,466K) (opens in new window) Murchison River table (PDF, 96K) (opens in new window)
MU-4b 21 June 2018 Godley River map (PDF, 1,331K) (opens in new window) Godley River table (PDF, 91K) (opens in new window)

Tahr sightings maps - Two Thumb Range operation
Map number Date of operation Maps Tahr sightings information
5 August 2018 Overview map (PDF, 3000K) (opens in new window)
1 5 August 2018 Lower section of the Two Thumb Range map (PDF, 3,559K) (opens in new window) Lower section of the Two Thumb Range table (PDF, 83K) (opens in new window)
2 5 August 2018 Mid section of the Two Thumb Range map (PDF, 3,582K) (opens in new window) Mid section of the Two Thumb Range table (PDF, 94K) (opens in new window)
3 5 August 2018 Upper section of the Two Thumb Range map (PDF, 3,102K) (opens in new window) Upper section of the Two Thumb Range table (PDF, 100K) (opens in new window)
4 5 August 2018 Headwaters of the Clyde River map (PDF, 684K) (opens in new window) Headwaters of the Clyde River table (PDF, 91K) (opens in new window)
5 5 August 2018 Headwaters of the Lawrence River map (PDF, 685K) (opens in new window) Headwaters of the Lawrence River table (PDF, 87K) (opens in new window)
Tahr control maps
The maps below show helicopter flight paths and waypoints where animals have been shot.

The tables show the number of tahr seen at each waypoint and the altitude.

Tahr control maps - Aoraki Mount Cook operation
Management Unit (MU) Date of operation Maps Tahr control information
16-21 June 2018 Overview map (PDF, 1,361) (opens in new window)
MU-5 16 June 2018 Lower Ben Ohau Range map (PDF, 1,192K) (opens in new window) Lower Ben Ohau Range table (PDF, 81K) (opens in new window)
MU-5 17 June 2018 Mid Ben Ohau Range map (PDF, 1,056K) (opens in new window) Mid Ben Ohau Range table (PDF, 81K) (opens in new window)
MU-5 18 June 2018 Hopkins River map (PDF, 1,205K) (opens in new window) Hopkins River table (PDF, 80K) (opens in new window)
MU-4b 18 June 2018 Hooker River map (PDF, 1,414K) (opens in new window) Hooker River table (PDF, 90K) (opens in new window)
MU-3 19 June 2018 Gamack Range map (PDF, 1,464K) (opens in new window) Garmack Range table (PDF, 95K) (opens in new window)
MU-4b 20 June 2018 Murchison River map (PDF, 1,466K) (opens in new window) Murchison River table (PDF, 96K) (opens in new window)
MU-4b 21 June 2018 Godley River map (PDF, 1,331K) (opens in new window) Godley River table (PDF, 91K) (opens in new window)
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The main things I got from that are that between AATH, guides and DOC, they will be removing 5000 "trophy" animals from DOC land.
We can't complain about a lack of information about the process.
Here is a link to the site if you want to view the maps.
https://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-re...ol-operations/

Originally Posted by Projects

I'm sure everyone else who sent emails requesting information from the "Hon." Eugenie Sage got back their generic reply today as well. This was what i recieved as an attachment to the message.

"Tēnā koe

On behalf of Hon Eugenie Sage, thank you for your email regarding Himalayan tahr. Please find a response from the Minister attached.

Ngā mihi"

Attachment 95624
Attachment 95625

I wonder if there is any significance in the statement:

"...even after this control work is done there will still be ample tahr to sustain guided tahr hunting and tourist ventures."

No reference to recreational hunting?

https://www.facebook.com/hunting.com...6277576141197/

I wonder if this is someone trying to make a quick buck off the back of the proposed cull? Hate to imagine the amount of gut/arse shot animals running round after a rookie chopper shooter has had a go.

This Tahr Liason Group? Who're they, iwi and 11 stakeholder representatives. Iwi i understand being in the group for any cultural concerns with regard to Tahr, cannot see that an issue. But, the 11 stakeholders, there should be some sort of expertise or common sense in these 11 people. Who're these 11?

Originally Posted by Maxx

I wonder if there is any significance in the statement:

"...even after this control work is done there will still be ample tahr to sustain guided tahr hunting and tourist ventures."

No reference to recreational hunting?

I wondered the same thing as soon as I read it.

Originally Posted by Shearer

Just found this on the DOC website and highlighted a few interesting points

How will the control operations be done?
A meeting with the Tahr Liaison Group was held in Christchurch on 29 August 2018. The following approach to reduce the tahr population has been proposed:

NZDA, Safari Club International and Tahr Interest Group work together with their members to remove at least 2,500 tahr from public conservation land and provide evidence and data.

WARO operators (who are concessioned) to remove 3,000 tahr from public conservation land and provide evidence and data.

AATH operators to remove 1,500 tahr from public conservation land using offsets and provide evidence and data.

Professional hunting guides to remove 500 tahr from public conservation land and provide evidence and data.

DOC to remove 10,000 tahr from public conservation land and provide evidence and data (excluding Westland/Tai Poutini and Aoraki Mt Cook National Parks).




The main things I got from that are that between AATH, guides and DOC, they will be removing 5000 "trophy" animals from DOC land.
We can't complain about a lack of information about the process.
Here is a link to the site if you want to view the maps.
https://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-re...ol-operations/

From a population of ESTIMATED at 35,600 it is NOT POSSIBLE to have 5000 "Trophy" animals espesially when the current female bias is observed.

Originally Posted by McNotty

https://www.facebook.com/hunting.com...6277576141197/

I wonder if this is someone trying to make a quick buck off the back of the proposed cull? Hate to imagine the amount of gut/arse shot animals running round after a rookie chopper shooter has had a go.

Bloody awful, and we need Kiwi's to be aware of this sort of commercialization too. I posted this up on their page but I doubt it'll stay long . . .

"This is an appalling commercialization of our NZ game animals, bad enough that they have to be culled, completely unacceptable that it is offered as a moneymaking venture called "hunting". To anyone considering this be assured you will be seen as a pariah in NZ hunting circles and hopefully tossed head first out of any pub in the land. Don't be fooled into paying for this is you call yourself a hunter. I (and most anybody on the NZ Hunting and Fishing Forum) will gladly point you in the right direction to hunt (or cull) our game if you wish."

Its also a puzzle as to how "all of a sudden" Tahr have become a problem, one would assume from their website DOC are supposed to have ongoing control plans, yet numbers have climbed "out of control" - so have they not being doing their jobs the last few years, perhaps someone needs the sack to wake the rest up. In any case as with all matters requiring investigation I suggest the Foundation gets someone onto "following the money" as I suspect either DOC budgets or lobbying money will tell us a story.

Originally Posted by Projects

This Tahr Liason Group? Who're they, iwi and 11 stakeholder representatives. Iwi i understand being in the group for any cultural concerns with regard to Tahr, cannot see that an issue. But, the 11 stakeholders, there should be some sort of expertise or common sense in these 11 people. Who're these 11?

We need everybody in this fight, but what the fuck has any "iwi" got to do with Tahr on "cultural grounds?

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

From a population of ESTIMATED at 35,600 it is NOT POSSIBLE to have 5000 "Trophy" animals espesially when the current female bias is observed.

I referred to them as "trophy animals" because that is what guides and AATH will be targeting. 2000 of them, whether they exist or not. They will not be out there killing nannies and kids. DOC are targeting another 3000 bulls (future trophies) and 7000 "other" which will no doubt include young bulls.
The figure of 35,600 was the median of the survey figures which concluded (with 95% statistical certainty) there were between 17,347 and 53,920 tahr on DOC land. A pretty big spread, and the author of the study said there was a large margin of error. After having read it, I couldn't see a better or more impartial way of doing it.

Originally Posted by Tentman

Its also a puzzle as to how "all of a sudden" Tahr have become a problem, one would assume from their website DOC are supposed to have ongoing control plans, yet numbers have climbed "out of control" - so have they not being doing their jobs the last few years, perhaps someone needs the sack to wake the rest up. In any case as with all matters requiring investigation I suggest the Foundation gets someone onto "following the money" as I suspect either DOC budgets or lobbying money will tell us a story.

I’m probably to share the blame, I’ve seen mobs of nanny’s 30s and 40s when bull hunting and only shot a couple of nanny’s on the trip out. I should of came back on a nanny meat but I shoot enough deer too keep me going.
Numbers can build up e.g 10,000 nanny’s having kids, one third being bulls so that’s 7,000 nanny’s, so every three years your numbers tripled in a best case scenario. Weather for the flying assessment on numbers could have been better than previous years or the helo operators putting DOC into high density numbers to line there own pockets in a extended cull operations? It’s happened in the past.

Originally Posted by tikka

Numbers can build up e.g 10,000 nanny’s having kids, one third being bulls so that’s 7,000 nanny’s, so every three years your numbers tripled in a best case scenario. Weather for the flying assessment on numbers could have been better than previous years or the helo operators putting DOC into high density numbers to line there own pockets in a extended cull operations? It’s happened in the past.

One third of kids born being bull's? Surely it's half male half female, like all other mammals (and most other animals).

Originally Posted by kiwijames

Couple letters from me. Just have to sign and put in the envelope.
Hope you all can do the same.

What sort of things did you put in the letter's? Not sure what to put in them. But I know that they're the best way as they have to reply in kind.

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They look really good there @Russian 22. Force the buggers to do some work
For future tv interviews go in hard if she is only going to dismiss it out of hand!

Originally Posted by Sideshow

They look really good there @Russian 22. Force the buggers to do some work
For future tv interviews go in hard if she is only going to dismiss it out of hand!

Not me yet hahaha. Planning on doing something other than donating.

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