Thread: Thermal gear. Should we have it?

Originally Posted by Russian 22.

open slather and pest language will just result in F all to hunt.

I agree. I wish the government/DOC did too.

Originally Posted by Russian 22.

But I think NZ hunting culture and just our culture in general isn't mature enough for seasons and any rules of any sort.

that stuff would have had to happen generations ago to work.

I'm not suggesting anything in particular, just game animal status and an end to indiscriminate "pest" control on public land.

Originally Posted by Friwi

There might be some guys out there who enjoy just killing stuff And bragging on how many they shot in one week or one year. They might be using thermals to do that.They are not the kind of people who impresse me much and for some of the few I have met over the years, some have gotten sick of shooting that much and are turning to a different style of hunting, photography or other activities.

There is a whole continent of folks beside you doing just that. I'd say less than 5% hunters in the field here recover meat and none of the other 95% move to other hobbies due to the 'horrors of mass animal shooting' Its interesting to hear other perspectives though. Is what you say mirrored by the feelings of the majority of NZ hunters, and that NZ blokes shooting a lot end up being turned off the sport??

As to thermal gear to the OP, I assume we are not talking about warm underwear ; I think the case for 'fairness to animal numbers' was won and lost when we invented smokeless centrefires. Anything since then is small potatoes.

The horse has bolted........

My only concern is that the Waro boys are using them now to smack those big smart stags down here....

Facebook is groaning with the amount of deer shot in spot lights and using thermals. Its likely that more deer are shot at night nowadays than in daylight.

I don't mind either, but I don't like the hero/macho bullshit stories and comments that go with it.

A couple of years ago an area near where I live had one night 7 spot lights roaming, now with thermals running there are no beams to mark out where the other hunters are and with most now using suppressors there is no tell tale noise.

Its noticable round my way how many vehicles seem to be driving at just 10 km now in likely spotlighting areas, and no spotlight.. they speed up when you approach them.. funny that.

Originally Posted by mimms2

...err... I don't think I was advocating that in any way whatsoever??

but the bigger issue, are you allowed to use a spear at night?

Only the non pointy end.

My thoughts on the original post are that thermals do have a place. They are not a magic bullet and do have downfalls. They do a job, and whether that fits with the shooter or not that is a call for the person paying for it. Myself, I would not buy one. That much coin could buy me so much more that I need / want first.But after being out with a few other guys who used one I can see the appeal, especially in pest control. For removing the final "difficult" animals from an area they should not be (Pigs set loose in a reserve and in private farm land without the farm owners permission) or large volumes of rabbits. We scanned a couple paddocks for rabbits with a spot light and were surprised at how many there were. When we scanned the same paddock with the thermal, e saw the true scale f the issue at hand.....One downside was once you shoot the rabbits with a thermal, they stay warm for a bit, so if you scan over looking for smart ones that are hiding in long grass, ou cannot tell easily if it is one ducking down or one that has already been dispatched.....

While I wont buy one myself, I would not say no to using one if offered and I can see a number of legitimate uses for them. I can also see the rogues using them for poaching etc but those sorts of people will break the law anyway with or without thermals. Stopping them from having thermals wont stop them breaking the law. They will simply do it another way (Like shooting farm animals instead...)

That swings us right back to the same argument over the buy back. Removing semi autos will not make any difference.Those that would choose to do harm to others will still do harm to others and those law abiding citizens who are having their gear taken from them, were never going to harm others anyway...

Originally Posted by outdoorlad

The horse has bolted........

My only concern is that the Waro boys are using them now to smack those big smart stags down here....

I’ve heard of a WARO using them.

I think if they can elude me during the day theyre welcome to a rest at night just my take on it

I would probably use it on private land for rabbit control but I prefer actually hunting with daylight, eyesight, wind and skill to secure an animal. What I don't like about thermal is the fact people can hunt public land pretty much undetected compared to spotlighting.

I can understand where you're coming from, OP. Your stance is very 'tweed coat and top hat'; one which goes against the grain of today's thinking. Perhaps you could take a time machine back to the 1920's? And be sure to take a thermal with you.

I agree that going bush with only a 'pack and rifle' (the basic necessities) and doing more with less, can be liberating. It's also a touch more sporting, and an effective way of building character - i.e resourcefulness and resilience. (The fewer crutches you have at your disposal, the greater the chance of failure. And it's failure which breeds perseverance, not easily-won success).

I also feel that lugging increasing amounts of gadgetry into the outdoors, while perhaps 'convenient' (until a battery goes flat!), dilutes the experience of being at the mercy of something far greater than ourselves (nature). It may lead to a form of arrogance, whereby we believe we should always have the upper hand over it - i.e rather than negotiate obstacles by relying on our wits and being responsive to our surroundings, we should reach for a gadget instead and just cruuuise, baby!

Does this mean thermal devices should be illegal, or that they're inherently bad; or that, in using one, you're somehow inferior as a hunter?

I've met old school hunters (who learned how to hunt the hard way) who are now using thermal devices in their later years. They've already paid their dues. They live busy lives. And the thermal devices are just a way of tipping the odds in their favour. And there lies the crux of it - whether a method is valid or not probably depends on your intent. A lot of people are comparing thermal use in trophy hunting, with their use in commercial shooting, or recreational meat hunting etc. It's comparing apples, pears and oranges!

Not all hunters are preoccupied with self improvement or acquiring badges of honour from the sporting fraternity. The goal may be something as simple as filling the freezer with minimal fuss, or it may be about capitalizing on your time (if you're a professional culler, for instance).

As long as animals are killed ethically, and you're not putting anyone's life in danger, I don't think the method(s) are of much concern.

Poaching has always taken place, and it will continue. Thermals or no thermals.

But! There may actually be some merit in encouraging recreational hunters (particularly younger hunters) to go about things the simple way - at least to begin with. Why overwhelm one's debut into hunting with expensive buttons and freakin' laser beams - when hunting's unique attribute (which separates it from any other activity) is that it allows us to forgo the complexities of modern living and embrace a much rawer existence?

Furthermore, we are living in an internet age where image is everything. It's come to my attention that the general public often pick up on the hypocrisy of recreational hunters claiming to hunt for the sake of 'getting closer to nature', yet they'll exploit every piece of modern technology available to them to kill an animal. Often unnecessarily so.

Tweed coat and top hat??????? You have obviously never met me And if showing respect for animals through measuring and trying to define a line in the sand is classified as old school then guilty as charged. But tweed? It would make me itchy. Well thought out comments though mate. Actually I think there has been a change in the way some people view game animals since they were re classified legally as a pest. I have seen the same thing in Aussy. When there are plenty about then a few people who just love killing stuff will always come out of the woodwork. I agree that if the goal is simply filling the freezer then the person might apply a different set of morals and use whatever means necessary there, compared to if it is sport and recreation. I think that as with everything in life there will always be people who like to cut as many corners as possible and focus purely on the result rather than including the journey as well. It is definitely a slippery slope when it comes to technology and everyone has their own 'sweet spot' somewhere between thermal gear and a spear. I think as we grow and develop as hunters that sweet spot might change for a variety of reasons too and that is OK. Each to their own as they say.

Hunting is not a sport, just ask the deer if they think so?? If it were sporting then it should be an equal contest between the parties (hows that for Auckland corporate speak).

It is a recreational activity or (necessity to supplement the larder) and nothing more. We are (or were) free to use any legal method to achieve the outcome we want, which is in my case a full freezer. You don't have to like my method of achieving it and I don't have to like yours...........but we SHOULD respect each others choices none the less. Benefits of a free country and freedom to choose...................................

Originally Posted by Hiawatha

Tweed coat and top hat??????? You have obviously never met me And if showing respect for animals through measuring and trying to define a line in the sand is classified as old school then guilty as charged. But tweed? It would make me itchy. Well thought out comments though mate. Actually I think there has been a change in the way some people view game animals since they were re classified legally as a pest. I have seen the same thing in Aussy. When there are plenty about then a few people who just love killing stuff will always come out of the woodwork. I agree that if the goal is simply filling the freezer then the person might apply a different set of morals and use whatever means necessary there, compared to if it is sport and recreation. I think that as with everything in life there will always be people who like to cut as many corners as possible and focus purely on the result rather than including the journey as well. It is definitely a slippery slope when it comes to technology and everyone has their own 'sweet spot' somewhere between thermal gear and a spear. I think as we grow and develop as hunters that sweet spot might change for a variety of reasons too and that is OK. Each to their own as they say.

Haha! I'll graciously take back my tweed coat and top hat comment.

I like your attitude. I'm currently reading a book written by the late deer stalker, Alex McConochie - and he said the same as you. Assigning animals pest status can have a detrimental effect on how we view and treat them.

But yes, each to their own. If somebody's chosen method fulfills their needs/desires, that's all that matters.

Sing out if you ever make it down south.