Thread: Thermal gear. Should we have it?

Originally Posted by canross

The whole argument over "which" gear is ok is a funny thing. I think sometimes people confuse values (respect of animals and tradition, self-centered benefit, care of environment and animals) with intent (fair chase, experiencing nature, humane hunts, poaching etc), and that leads to misunderstandings between people with different methods of doing something.

It's entirely possible that two people who share opposing view points on something (thermal imaging) have the same respect for a hunt, animals, and reason for hunting, but usually attribute their own perspective to the other person.

On that note, I've always been a bit amused at the whole idea of "fair chase"... There is a part of me that can appreciate giving an animal a "fair chance" like it's a game, but this' the animal's life we're talking about whereas as humans, we absolutely don't need to hunt. Every one of us has the capacity to find food otherwise, even if it means moving elsewhere to do it. From that stand point, my main metric has been whether something is likely to reduce suffering of an animal or not, and from that, I am fine with anything that does that. Better equipment? Fine. More practice? Great. That said, I'm not in disagreement who choose to do things in a way that makes the hunt more challenging in exchange for a slower kill - the odds of an animal being killed are proportionally lower as well.


Some people hunt with a bow in order to give a deer a better chance to survive. That takes a lot of skill, and part of the benefit goes to the deer who has a better chance of survival, and part of the benefit goes to the hunter who faces a greater challenge and experiences a greater sense of achievement when they get something. I also understand that an instantaneous death is almost unheard of with bows. It's a trade off.

Same goes for someone who hunts with iron sights on a rifle, or only hunts close, or practices their shooting at distance, or uses thermal gear. Anything that is done with the intent of making an animal's death as close to painless as possible is fine with me. If that intent isn't there, then I would have to think more about what's being done.

Furthermore, the argument that something shouldn't be available because it could be abused is the same flawed logic that has us as a hunting community under attack at this very moment over our firearms in general. The laws already exist, if they're broken, lay charges - problem solved, don't go trying to regulate every aspect of our lives with more unneeded red tape.

With that I'd say I'm fine with thermals when used by people who respect the animals they shoot, and are upstanding members of the firearms and hunting community. If they misuse them, they'll have broken some already existing law and the problem will sort itself out.

Very well said.

Originally Posted by Huntfisheat

Very well written and considered. The only question i have is how does a thermal device aid in a more humane kill?

In some cases I don't know if it would, in which case it would be as good/the same as a conventional scope. In others, especially overcast, low (still legal) light, looking into a dark area or private property night hunting, I would say it would help with a better shot, especially when you're really on the edge of when you're comfortable light wise. You use your best judgement and don't take a shot when you aren't comfortable, but it eliminates the entire question in some cases and provides a clear image. Also might help with confirming target once you've ID'd it with binos, or finding an animal if you do pull a shot and you need to hit it again, or find it. Thermal's not a magical problem solver either - it's complex, expensive, and more prone to failure than older technology , so I don't know if we'll see widespread uptake anyways, so it's kind of a non-problem in my mind really - those that have a use for it will buy it, it'll be a novel idea that we don't get around to for the rest of us

People are afraid of it because the technology threatens to change the balance. Makes conventional hunting more difficult because numbers will be overall reduced by the thermal hunter, both private and commercial.. that is a valid concern for those that like to hunt in whats seen as a more conventional manner.

Id be hesitant as a thermal user, to post a hunting report as such, claiming my thermal kill was a hunt.. its more like a scan, locate and shoot scenario.. perhaps one still has to get into the right country, but in open country at least its a done deal. If its hot is not going to live long.

Sadly the fears it will change the balance in heavily hunted areas are probably correct. As a pest controller I can work half the hours, cover twice the area, and shoot twice as many animals as using conventional optics.. its all on the plus side for reducing densities.

Thermals are heaps safer than spotlighting or looking through a scope. You can identify the target and what's behind it to a certain extent. So long as you identify your target, line of fire and what's beyond.

For me it’s a bridge too far and tips the balance too much in the hunter’s favour. I have always been of the opinion that the hours of darkness give our prey a little respite, which is now being diminished. I get the point that without innovation I would be without my rifle, scope, GPS, ballistic app, rangefinder, etc, but this is a step change beyond all of those. I will never do it, but it’s a personal choice. I am also not comfortable with the argument that it makes hunting at night safer. Yes, unit may be safer than spotlighting, but it’s never going to be as safe as seeing the target and what’s behind it in shooting light.

Originally Posted by ebf

Agree with Micky Duck.

Spotlighting on DOC land is supposed to be illegal. But spend any amount of time in the bush and you will see a lot of people do it anyway.

At least with thermal guys are looking for particular shapes, rather than just a quick flash of eyes. So there may well be a point to be made that thermal will increase safety...

Having used one i do get your point but having been on the shit end of people shooting with a thermal while i was walking into a hut in the dark i was genuinely scared for my life. The sort of people that poach are not the most careful. And its not far to think they would shoot at a shape if they would shoot at eyes. Also interestingly enough human eyes dont reflect. So i would prefer spot lighters as they give a warning the are coming.

Also have seen them used on the tops after dark and reported hunters to police and as far as I know nothing eventuated. The hunters flew in by chopper right next to where i had hiked to and set up camp and first night they proceeded to shoot a young 10 point and only take its head. I heard the shot at near midnight and the next morning i walked past there camp and they couldn't tell me how good the thermal was. I hiked further in and came back out to a tonne of backcountry wrappers shoved in a hole and a heap of beer bottles left in the tarn. I packed all of these out as i hadn't found a mature stag so pack was empty enough. Called up the chopper company and they reluctantly passed on party details and let me know they wouldn't fly them in again (due to rubbish mainly).

Anyway after the pointless waffling I think they have a place and are progression but the do also provide a means to do the wrong and dangerous things easier than other options.

Originally Posted by Outdoors

Thermals are heaps safer than spotlighting or looking through a scope. You can identify the target and what's behind it to a certain extent. So long as you identify your target, line of fire and what's beyond.

Issue is your last statement its not a given everyone does it. And at night the target doesn't get a warning whether that be deer or person.

Hell yeah i love me thermal makes up for my lack of hunting talent.

To answer the original post. It is my opinion only that if you need thermal gear at the present time to score a feed then you shouldn’t call yourself a hunter and take up something more appropriate like online gaming.

Originally Posted by MB

What animals do you hunt that aren't a pest?




That is the elephant in the room. Once that fundamental issue is resolved, we can start having sensible discussions about how we hunt game animals.

ok have read thru all the posts in this thread and have nothing constructive to add......
so here we go, if you cant see an elephant in the room without thermal get a guide dog and stop hunting...........
alot of guys have legitimate use for thermal just because you have it doesnt mean you are shooting on public land after dark ....just like you have a motorbike that will do 200 clicks doesnt mean you go that fast on the road.

Originally Posted by Hiawatha

I worry that it is creating a culture where people just write a cheque and go shoot deer and more deer more easily. There is very little sport in thermal use that is for sure. I think we are in serious danger of totally and absolutely treating our deer like targets, more than the amazing animals that they are. There has already been an element of that creeping in with some (not all by a long stretch) long range shooting as well. C'mon lets be honest here. I know there are personal variations, but like no other tech ever invented I think thermal gear is potentially an issue. Not only that but when do the deer get a break?

If we took that and ran with it we should all limit ourselves to .50 cal muzzle loaders, and ban optics too so people with older eyes can't go hunting but have to just watch it on the box. That way we will have more heart attacks in front of the TV in reach of a phone and with easier ambulance access.

Originally Posted by Max Headroom

I intend to buy thermal kit at some stage, as a substitute for a mutt. It's cheaper to run than a dog, it doesn't bark, chew stuff, or crap on the lawn.

I also like the notion that I could use it for other stuff like looking for a hot spot that might flare up into a fire, and also to search for a missing person.

Maybe thermal for pig hunting has potential as a more humane method than dogs? Just throwing it in, no beef in that game myself. (sorry, pork)