Thread: Time to re-introduce a paying for deer/goat tail scheme?

HNZare a bit like goats .every vacant section locally has been adorned with multi storey dog kennels usually blue and white .mind you eggy meggy woods min housing is our local MP(hopefully not much longer).found out yesterday the unirt burnt out next to us willbe adorned with the above .underwhelmed yep!

Originally Posted by Fat ninja

Currently doc are more concerned with your ability to do paper work rather then your hunting ability or experience.

Unfortunately that relates to ALL govt departments. And adds enormously to the top heavy burden the Indians at the bottom have to put up with. And consumes $$ in salaries out of all proportion to the value they add....if any.

Originally Posted by XR500

Unfortunately that relates to ALL govt departments. And adds enormously to the top heavy burden the Indians at the bottom have to put up with. And consumes $$ in salaries out of all proportion to the value they add....if any.

100% agreed my before mentioned friend can testify to the mind blowing stupidity, safety glasses to be worn in wet bush , incidents made up to keep to fulfil quotas by H&S!
Survey Trap lines set by random selection resulting in please explain emails why a bluffs and /or cliff faces were not trapped.

Staff of large operators returning to poach private land.

Remember the sacks of 1080 found dumped in the bush offer an operation,

The list goes on!

Pay $10-$20 per pair of possum ears and watch the population come crashing down.

This conversation is why PF2050 will never be reality.
Doc will never commit the $$ to getting every last rat stoat and possum dead.

I see a bounty ax another tool in the tool box. Along with targeted culling operations. Waste of time with poison on goats isn't it..?

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Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

perhaps a little heads up here on how DOC gets its money may clarify things as to why a bounty is a no brainer and a no show - DOC starting around Jan Feb start to formulate the next years business plan - okay so as a Program Manager I would be aske to cost out next years operations this would include any new projects - these go to Conservancy where the first no yes takes place - these then go to head office - and again yes no - they will have some idea what Treasury has in store as to a possible budget next financial year - once a project is approved this is then negotiated with treasury and if all go added to business plan - now projects are a purchase of staff hours and operating dollars with treasury - they have time lines and have exactly what the DOC will deliver for that project - projects have to be time bound and have clearly measurable out comes - money once allocated to an approved project cannot be taken for other projects in another division of DOC - - a bounty would not even get past the very first stage -why because its outcome will be zilch - it would have no impact what so ever be it deer goats or possums - yes nice for a shooter but as for effective control nah nyet non - cant spell it out any clearer - to control any animal population one needs to control over 90% of the population or better - and then keep that up - not going to happen guys -volunteers in a small area maybe

With all that rigorous accountability how the hell does doc quickly come up with $11,000,000 to go burn down 50 huts?
Average chopper bill for each one was around $2000. Double that for labour etc and it come out at no more than $250000 to do the whole job.
I don’t have much faith in docs money handling skills

Originally Posted by tiroahunta

I see a bounty ax another tool in the tool box. Along with targeted culling operations. Waste of time with poison on goats isn't it..?

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another tool yes but only for a specific area and specific pest it would need to be very carefully managed so that only the target animal from a specific area was paid for and it would need to be small area -then and only then does it have any merit - what might work is to give a group a koha for work in an area - that way the group can police their own - blanket bountys well go tip tax payers money in the ocean because it would achieve nothing - poison on goats I believe the FS did trials years ago and it was not very successful - deer specifically targeted with 1080 of course against DOC internal policy and lets hope it stays that way - if deer are to be controlled I believe it should be shooting only

Had a chat to a farmer in the cave area of south canterbury and when he asked what I was shooting up on the hill wallabies my reply, well I lit a fuse, those bloody doc contractors just been thru there and yet here you are blowing heaps of lead at them. My reply was why would they do themselves out of a long term job, cushy some say. So I just spend six day chasing animals and the wallabies numbers are well up on the last time I was in that area, yet it too had been hit this past winter.
Moral of the story is don't argue with the experts, they have your money behind them.

Originally Posted by Maddoghunter

With all that rigorous accountability how the hell does doc quickly come up with $11,000,000 to go burn down 50 huts?
Average chopper bill for each one was around $2000. Double that for labour etc and it come out at no more than $250000 to do the whole job.
I don’t have much faith in docs money handling skills

DOC did not burn Te Urewera huts down Tuhoe trust did although DOC stood by and did nothing and I guess it was Tax payer money - they were stopped at I believe around 35 gone by protests a lot from Tuhoe hunters -how many remain and what is the fate of the rest who knows - I personally dont think we have seen the end of it -

Pretty awesome that your sister has Kaka visiting her farm, shame that they beat her to the fruit but that's life, eh.

Those flappy birds sure do fly (and far) but when elevated lead is also being found in fledglings and juveniles (less than 1 year old) who are unlikely to have ventured far from the nest, it suggests looking for sources closer to home.

Lead isotope testing was undertaken using a variety of OTC ammo. Lead isotope signatures were found to differ between ammo and building flashing due to the source or origin USA, Australia, China etc.

There is correlation between the lead isotopes found in ammo and those found in Kea blood samples.

Personally, I have found the Naturalis Belmont ammo to be just as effective in 7-08. Would be good if they could also get a 140gr projectile so my POA stays the same as when using cheaper lead rounds in areas where scavenging birds aren't present.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

really.......who supplied the coolaid in that drinking fountain??? my sister lives in waikato on a dairy farm not far from puketurua..actually between there and the arapuni dam..she has fruit trees on the farm OLD OLD oldschool fruit called a cumquat??? its like an apricot with taste between that and carrot..every year just as the yripen KAKA turn up....thats a long way to fly from maungatautiri reserve but turn up they do. there might be no huts/lead head nails in area these kea were (caught and stuck with needle to get blood sample before being released?) living in at time of testing.
but sure as God made little green apples the flappy things on either side of those green parrots allow them to venture elsewhere.

Originally Posted by LA3LOW

Pretty awesome that your sister has Kaka visiting her farm, shame that they beat her to the fruit but that's life, eh.

Those flappy birds sure do fly (and far) but when elevated lead is also being found in fledglings and juveniles (less than 1 year old) who are unlikely to have ventured far from the nest,

Personally, I have found the Naturalis Belmont ammo to be just as effective in 7-08. Would be good if they could also get a 140gr projectile so my POA stays the same as when using cheaper lead rounds in areas where scavenging birds aren't present.

do you see the irony???? problem with that.....
you/we/they cant have it both ways...personally I do not believe its anywhere as big of issue as is made out.

That's the thing with lead (and any other bio-accumulative substance), it's not an issue until it is.

Do you still use lead shot for ducks?

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

do you see the irony???? problem with that.....
you/we/they cant have it both ways...personally I do not believe its anywhere as big of issue as is made out.

no..switched to comply with law years ago,other than the .410 up until current season but that wasnt many rounds at all. one car battery worth of lead would be my entire shootings worth for a few years with shotgun.
I believe we as a species have a hell of a lot bigger issues going on than the supposed lead one.
the flashings have been changed in most places....the petrol has been changed..my shotgun cartridges have been changed...paints have been changed...so all the major players have been tweaked... to suggest the few tiny quantities we chuck at high speed into and through animals is the big issue killing off kea is a smokescreen ,pure and simple. might I suggest you read Bill Axbeys book "the bird hunters" it has interesting spin on things not often heard.

Originally Posted by Maddoghunter

With all that rigorous accountability how the hell does doc quickly come up with $11,000,000 to go burn down 50 huts?
Average chopper bill for each one was around $2000. Double that for labour etc and it come out at no more than $250000 to do the whole job.
I don’t have much faith in docs money handling skills

The same DOC which wanted to sell its soul [ aka the NZ public] for the ill fated dam on what is now a very small river chocka full of shingle.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Bounties have never worked.

They work well here on the Mink population.

When you can potentially earn $5000 from a packet of .22 ammo,people take to it full time.

I wonder what impact say $500 per goat tail would yield? Substantially more than just " fringe reduction" I would wager.