Thread: Unformed legal road/ Paper Road access

I did have some further thoughts on this, perhaps if you have already approached the landowner and he is going to be a prick about access which is the reason for this thread after all, then acting through the Council - that is putting some distance between yourself and the prick (via the Council) may avoid any spleen venting and confrontation. Ask the council ( in writing) how many signatories they require on an application to them to have the road opened. Then when they speak to Mr prick he will know that this is serious and best he doesn't push it to hard. Better to give you access and stop it escalating. As it stands you have nothing to negotiate with.

Originally Posted by Chop3r

And thats exactly what happened to get access over Poronui to the forest park.

I agree with almost all of this......and with respect would draw the following distinctions....

1. Your description of the health and safety landscape is as I understand it, and is an accurate synopsis.

2. There is public land (e.g. paper roads) and private land. They are different. If the formed alignment of a road is off the legal alignment (the paper road) then its private land, and that’s that.

3. If the easements you refer to allow unrestricted public access, and if those using them comply with the terms of them then they don’t need a permit from you to use them. If the route they use deviate off the easement, then point 2. above applies.

4. You don’t need to step off the paper road and onto private land to be issued with a Trespass Notice. AFAIK you can be issued with one simply if the occupier has reasonable cause to expect that you are likely to trespass. So o doubt an occupier could argue that just being there provides reasonable cause….?

Originally Posted by stretch

Yes, seen several examples like that. I've also seen a few examples where DOC open hunting areas cross grazed pasture. Some of these ARE DOC land where grazing rights have been given within DOC open hunting areas. When I enquired, I was told a condition of these leases is that pubic activities including hunting is still permitted and may not be blocked.

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Not all DOC land under grazing leases is the same, for some of it hunting and access is not permitted (unless you have permission from the farmer leasing it Of course).

Originally Posted by Maxx

2. There is public land (e.g. paper roads) and private land. They are different. If the formed alignment of a road is off the legal alignment (the paper road) then its private land, and that’s that.

Not exactly - IIRC a formed road maintained by a council gets a sort of defacto legal road status from public use even if its not in a legal road corridor, and councils fight it pretty hard if people try to block off a publicly used road even if its out of position. Basically they can force the landowner to leave the formed road free and clear until they go through a process to legalise it formally.

Originally Posted by Maxx

4. You don’t need to step off the paper road and onto private land to be issued with a Trespass Notice. AFAIK you can be issued with one simply if the occupier has reasonable cause to expect that you are likely to trespass. So o doubt an occupier could argue that just being there provides reasonable cause….?

But you won't be breaching the trespass order unless you leave the legal road will you? Don't think they can trespass you from public land.

Originally Posted by GravelBen

Not exactly - IIRC a formed road maintained by a council gets a sort of defacto legal road status from public use even if its not in a legal road corridor, and councils fight it pretty hard if people try to block off a publicly used road even if its out of position. Basically they can force the landowner to leave the formed road free and clear until they go through a process to legalise it formally.

Nothing to stop farmer putting a plough through it if its not where it's supposed to be though...

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Nothing to stop farmer putting a plough through it if its not where it's supposed to be though...

Gee Ryan thought you were from Port Waikato, turns out you are from Parihaka

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Nothing to stop farmer putting a plough through it if its not where it's supposed to be though...

The council might disagree about that, it would be an interesting one for someone to try. You'd want to be pretty sure of it first, the council might want to find out what the courts think too...

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Nothing to stop farmer putting a plough through it if its not where it's supposed to be though...

That would likely be wilful damage. As you know stock that wanders off a farm, but is identifiable is not, free for the taking either.

Originally Posted by Cigar

Not all DOC land under grazing leases is the same, for some of it hunting and access is not permitted (unless you have permission from the farmer leasing it Of course).

Correct. The conditions are specific to the lease. My comment wasn’t clear.

Something I made about 3 years ago, then got sidetracked. Gotta figure out how I did it.