Thread: whats in your first aid kit?

Originally Posted by Koshogi

I understand ST Johns still does not recommend or teach the use of tourniquets, but the medical proof of lives saved by them in the last 14 years of combat in Iraq and Afghanistan would argue with their position. Hopefully they will come around soon.

Koshogi, the reason St Johns (or any other first aid course) does not teach/recommend tourniquets is that there is a little more involved to it than just shutting off bloodflow to the affected limb...

Most first-aiders would do more harm than good by applying a tourniquet. For the general public direct pressure and elevation is a much safer technique to teach.

In all the time I was an army medic and then a volunteer paramedic in civie life I never once got a pt that required a tourniquet. This included serious gunshot and stab wounds, vehicle accidents involving compound femur fractures, degloving injuries etc.

I'm also in spooks gang

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

This springs to mind

I have to weigh in on this comment , ... when I sat up and found my leg ripped off above the knee and arterial blood colouring the road , I was damn glad that one person had a belt .... applied and tightened to stop the spurt , it saved my life , ... you use what is avalible at the time , ... side of the road on a Friday afternoon , or hunting , ... the minimum I carry now is a survival bracelet , about 3 mtrs of paracord , ... I would rather have that than nothing

Originally Posted by Koshogi

Most belts make poor tourniquets. You don't want to find this out when someone has a major arterial bleed. A triangular bandage or neck tie would be a better option.





We can improvise or adapt many things to find a solution. Are they going to be as effective?

Some things aren't as important as others. This is one base that needs to covered IMHO.

I also carry a 5ml tube of super glue, very handy. 1st time I used it to glue a 100mm long x 20mm deep gash in my leg closed after a slip while retreaving a animal, (solo hunt) i put some sticky strip stitches over the top, and some more glue to seal it up, worked so well the doc decided they didn't need to do anything else. 2nd time I was hunting with a mate miles from camp and his sling swivel broke super glue worked a treat on that too.

Originally Posted by Scouser

A small can (the size of your thumb) of that 'spray on skin' stuff is brill to stop a cut that wont stop bleeding.......

A little squeeze tube of superglue is better.

I've got the std ACR one with a few suture kits added and some forceps.
I've thought about a couple of catheters and some tube, but end of the day if I'm thinking that's needed then the whirly bird left 5 mins ago and the chance of someone that's out of practice inserting a useable line is slim. May as well concentrate on other things and spare the poor bugger becoming a pin cushion.

Originally Posted by ebf

Koshogi, the reason St Johns (or any other first aid course) does not teach/recommend tourniquets is that there is a little more involved to it than just shutting off bloodflow to the affected limb...

Most first-aiders would do more harm than good by applying a tourniquet. For the general public direct pressure and elevation is a much safer technique to teach.

In all the time I was an army medic and then a volunteer paramedic in civie life I never once got a pt that required a tourniquet. This included serious gunshot and stab wounds, vehicle accidents involving compound femur fractures, degloving injuries etc.

I'm aware of the complications that can occur due to the use of a tourniquet, but the risk outweighs the survival benefit.

I disagree with you that first aiders would do more harm than good. Part of any training is going to include when to use it and when not to.

Attitudes towards the use of tourniquets have been changing for the last 20 years. Their increased use on and off the battlefield is credited with saving hundreds of lives. I know several of those lives personally. I also know people who applied a tourniquet to themselves(GSW) when it was not required, no harm was done.

Even the Army(Australian) was slow to change their attitude and include their training and use.

Stumpy's incident highlights why ST. John should include the tourniquet in it's training courses. Thankfully somebody was on hand to apply one. Do you think pressure and elevation would have caused hemostasis?

Training always beats gear.

Training and gear is seldom a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Koshogi

I'm aware of the complications that can occur due to the use of a tourniquet, but the risk is outweighed by the survival benefit.

Correction to my previous.

Originally Posted by Koshogi

I'm aware of the complications that can occur due to the use of a tourniquet, but the risk outweighs the survival benefit.

I disagree with you that first aiders would do more harm than good. Part of any training is going to include when to use it and when not to.

That's your view, and you're entitled to it...

I think what you are missing is that when scope of practise protocols are worked out that they look not only at the benefit of a procedure when it is applied correctly, but also at the harm when it is done by well meaning people without sufficient training or experience.

Of course there are situations when a tourniquet is a life saver, but there are also many, many situations where incorrectly applied tourniquets will cause limbs to be lost unnecessarily or caused severe tissue or nerve damage.

A footnote on the use of tourniquets, and how their use is starting to become less tainted by old ideas and methodology.

A New Turn for Tourniquets | Medpage Today

Dont get your knickers in a twist. Good or bad if they are alive...sweet. But if you used a tourniquet for a wee splinter i am going to slap you upside the head.

It wont be the first line but it will be a line of helpful ways not to die. From stumpies paracord, to a tie (i don't know anyone who wears one when hunting it seems a wee bit posh), to a belt on a Friday afternoon. If they can tell the tale then the tourniquet worked fine. Quit yer belly aching and start yer hunting. FFS they are alive.

Chur and night

Needle and nylon thread, some cuts a plaster or superglue just wont hold together.

Originally Posted by Willie

Dont get your knickers in a twist. Good or bad if they are alive...sweet. But if you used a tourniquet for a wee splinter i am going to slap you upside the head.

It wont be the first line but it will be a line of helpful ways not to die. From stumpies paracord, to a tie (i don't know anyone who wears one when hunting it seems a wee bit posh), to a belt on a Friday afternoon. If they can tell the tale then the tourniquet worked fine. Quit yer belly aching and start yer hunting. FFS they are alive.

Chur and night

Who's belly aching? Other than you?

People were having a discussion about life saving equipment and training. Until you interrupted with your drivel.

If you wish to add pointless comments please find somewhere else. If you have knowledge to share, please participate.

Paracord is a terrible option for a tourniquet. Yes it MAY work, but is highly likely to cause serious tissue and nerve damage. It is widely recommended that any tourniquet be a minimum of 2" in width.

For what it's worth I'm going to put a couple of ideas out there.
Hunted all my life (58 thus far) and had to help a few fellows out.

Duct tape, good for so many things.
Dental floss
Pain relief, you know what works for you.
EPIRB - if the injury is that bad, just use this. It's the one that'll save the life.
For smaller things use common sense, like the boy scouts say, be prepared,take a first aid course, and make sure you know what to do in most circumstances. An well prepared team also has a back up plan for being injured - like having somebody know where you are and what to do if you don't make contact.

Basic, I know, but if you have confidence in your crew and support from home then you'll survive a lot longer than trying to make do by yourself.
Lots of holes in this but again I've been through some scrapes and mostly it comes back to basics.

This written by a senior registered nurse working in an ICU who loves hunting