Thread: Why do people use a guide?

I would love to give a guides perspective from my personal angle on this but it would take too long.
However. Imo prices wont drop for most outfits because they already operate just above logistic costs to secure clients. I know I do. What I spend on concessions, insurance, accommodation, food, websites, accountants and transport would stagger.
I can and do utilize private, estate or public land. So unless you own a heap of land with animals yourself I doubt you can drop prices much because they all charge a trophy fee. Even DOC do.
As for guides themselves well that's potluck and research will help with choosing one.
I consider myself as a competent hunter. I have always done well for myself. But when I first got into guiding I quickly realised I knew fuck all about it. I have been very lucky to have good mentors that I learned a lot from. My best mate has been a successful guide for years.
He set me up and took the time to impart what he knows. He is still my sounding board.
We have our differences like any mates but I have more respect and admiration for him than he will ever know.
I am always learning but I guide anyone like I would, trying to secure my son or best mate an animal they will be proud of. For most clients it is a trip of a lifetime they can only afford once in their life and that is how I tackle it. I feel the stress, uncertainty and excitement of a hunt just as much if not more than any client. Trick is, not to show it. Some clients will wear you down. Most will be friends for life.
I have yet in over 40yrs of hunting to secure a red stag trophy that I would be satisfied with.
I could in a heart beat, get a munter if I paid for it. I wont tho. So I can understand that way of thinking for some. If I get the time I may get one when and how of my choosing. But helping someone else get one, is just as exhilarating for me.
I might get a report card soon from a forum member as he is hopefully tagging along on a public land guided hunt with me and a client as soon as we can go.
I know I can trust him with my intellectual property. I am looking forward to it and will do my best to help him get an animal he will be proud of.

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So a few weeks ago Craigc and I flew into a Kaweka hut. The afternoon of arriving I walked about 15 km (and shot a yearling). I did that amount of walking every day for 4 days. On the last day my 71 year old knee chucked it in. Its taken a month for it to come right. One of those big walks was an over nighter to the burn on the Ngamatea boundary. I would love to see what lays beyond Mnt Meany on Ngamatea, and I would love to drive across Ngamatea in a side by side for a look around at their farming operation. Paying to do it, shooting a trophy or non trophy Sika to boot and not knocking my knee up again sounds like a real treat. Its a pipe dream, and I won't, but I could well justify it and would have a ball I'm sure. It would be well justified in my mind, and just like it is with my ethics its only me I need to account to.

Originally Posted by Tahr

So a few weeks ago I flew into a Kaweka hut. The afternoon of arriving I walked about 15 km (and shot a yearling). I did that amount of walking every day for 4 days. On the last day my 71 year old knee chucked it in. Its taken a month for it to come right. One of those big walks was an over nighter to the burn on the Ngamatea boundary. I would love to see what lays beyond Mnt Meany on Ngamatea, and I would love to drive across Ngamatea in a side by side for a look around at their farming operation. Paying to do it, shooting a trophy or non trophy Sika to boot and not knocking my knee up again sounds like real treat. Its a pipe dream, and I won't, but I could well justify it and would have a ball I'm sure. It would be well justified in my mind, and just like it is with my ethics its only me I need to account to.

Were you spotlighting?...that's about the distance we did when lighting.

I haven't used a guide at any point. Happy to do the slow learn myself. Took me ages to shoot my first deer. Turned out I learned heaps in the process and they came thick and fast after the first.

However in certain situations I 100% would consider a guide. I'm planning a Tahr hunt in the near ish future. If I didn't have much in the way of contacts down there I would 100% look at using a guide. Less about shooting a tanker and more about operating safely in an unfamiliar alpine environment.

Different people have different goals, different lives different levels of free time. If utilising a guide helps people get after it then why not.

I've put a couple mates onto their first deer now, one shooting a deer on his first ever hunt, on doc land as well and the other was a bit more gun shy so it took 2 half day hunts and an overnighter.
This was a fucking wayyyyyy easier path than I had, but why not? They loved it, I enjoyed it. Sure they probably didn't feel the same gratification I did after years of failier but still.

Apart from the obvious advantages of access, local knowledge, etc. guides are generally very experienced hunters from whom you can learn a great deal. I, like many in my age group, was fortunate in that I was hunting (or getting advice from) at an early age with family friends and very experienced hunters like Joff Thompson, Bruce Banwell, Zeff Veronese, Dave Hodder, Wally Carter, etc. and also getting a good grounding as a junior member of the NZDA in my early to mid teens. Many of today's beginning hunters simply do not have the same opportunities. Going out with a good guide increases the chances of success and the opportunity to learn, which increases your interest in the sport and enhances your ability to pass the skills on to younger people.

Originally Posted by R93

I would love to give a guides perspective from my personal angle on this but it would take too long.
However. Imo prices wont drop for most outfits because they already operate just above logistic costs to secure clients. I know I do. What I spend on concessions, insurance, accommodation, food, websites, accountants and transport would stagger.
I can and do utilize private, estate or public land. So unless you own a heap of land with animals yourself I doubt you can drop prices much because they all charge a trophy fee. Even DOC do.
As for guides themselves well that's potluck and research will help with choosing one.
I consider myself as a competent hunter. I have always done well for myself. But when I first got into guiding I quickly realised I knew fuck all about it. I have been very lucky to have good mentors that I learned a lot from. My best mate has been a successful guide for years.
He set me up and took the time to impart what he knows. He is still my sounding board.
We have our differences like any mates but I have more respect and admiration for him than he will ever know.
I am always learning but I guide anyone like I would, trying to secure my son or best mate an animal they will be proud of. For most clients it is a trip of a lifetime they can only afford once in their life and that is how I tackle it. I feel the stress, uncertainty and excitement of a hunt just as much if not more than any client. Trick is, not to show it. Some clients will wear you down. Most will be friends for life.
I have yet in over 40yrs of hunting to secure a red stag trophy that I would be satisfied with.
I could in a heart beat, get a munter if I paid for it. I wont tho. So I can understand that way of thinking for some. If I get the time I may get one when and how of my choosing. But helping someone else get one, is just as exhilarating for me.
I might get a report card soon from a forum member as he is hopefully tagging along on a public land guided hunt with me and a client as soon as we can go.
I know I can trust him with my intellectual property. I am looking forward to it and will do my best to help him get an animal he will be proud of.

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I can see guiding local (regionally adjacent) kiwis on public land could create the same problem that you have taking an inexperienced would be hunter out to an area you know that holds animals -I have been burned a couple of times, discovering they have gone back with or told their mates, and a reliable area has been cleaned out by a whole mob of guns. Doc charging trophy fees? hows that work?. Are there enough well heeled kiwis to keep pricing up where it is?.

Personally, I have my own spots to hunt and have the success level I need. The guided hunt I would do would be a west coast job (cause I don't hunt the coast) into spectacular country that held good Chami and I would be hunting with a camera first, rifle for the pot if necessary. But based on the little I know, not affordable for the average bloke, particularly now. In my case, no likely income in the next year, lots of others the same.

Using a Guide is no different than any other "professional" service you might use. You are paying for the things/skills you don't have or aren't likely to require except occaisionally.

Hobbys are different....For example I walk my dogs in a certain area each night and have done for 10 years. If you want to shoot a pheasant I could find you one within 10 minutes from my door and if you wanted an older bird that would take about 20 minutes. Would you find them on your own (even if I told you where to look) maybe but you would have to be real lucky where I could find them regardless.

Learning to be a Hunter like most things requires both time and practical experience out there doing it.
In our modern live's this can be difficult to achieve. I have no problem paying others to benefit from their experience/skills we all do it every day.

Its funny 3 of the guys at work all want to "shoot a deer". After talking with a forum member here who recently did a meat hunt, I suggested we organise a group meat hunt @ $x per animal.

No way were any of them interested in "paying to shoot a deer" so I suggested we could go walk into a hut locally one weekend on DOC land for a look and learn where the animals were (shoot one if lucky) but most likely would need to make a couple (or more trips) to get everyone there deer. None were interested as they "could not get away from home for so many weekends".

None had proper gear and when I got one to the range he was happy to mostly hit an A4 sized page occaisionally with his 30/06 at 100m as he reckoned it would be good enough to 300.

So...................I gave up.

I think what they wanted was me to take them to my spots...........shoot the deer.............get me to gut it etc and they take the meat home................NOT Happening

I should add I am a meat hunter only, I hunt when freezer is MT I am not interested in trophies at all but can see no difference between meat and trophy hunting in any case. What ever floats your boat

Originally Posted by Huntn

So you want someone else doing all the hard yards for you so you can achieve your specific requirement for very little effort??

This is exactly what I have trouble with understanding. Where would there be any satisfaction in getting your trophy like this? To me it just seems like plain laziness.

Sorry not having a go at you personally 257weatherby but just my opinion.

now you have posted that you will see why I referred to whoreing in my earlier post......same thing at end of the day,you are paying for a service with guarantee of results..... now just how much of a bang you want/get depends on how deep your pockets are...both are legal,its a moral dicision and entirely up to the individual as to weather or not they brag to mates about the outcome....

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

I can see guiding local (regionally adjacent) kiwis on public land could create the same problem that you have taking an inexperienced would be hunter out to an area you know that holds animals -I have been burned a couple of times, discovering they have gone back with or told their mates, and a reliable area has been cleaned out by a whole mob of guns. Doc charging trophy fees? hows that work?. Are there enough well heeled kiwis to keep pricing up where it is?.

Personally, I have my own spots to hunt and have the success level I need. The guided hunt I would do would be a west coast job (cause I don't hunt the coast) into spectacular country that held good Chami and I would be hunting with a camera first, rifle for the pot if necessary. But based on the little I know, not affordable for the average bloke, particularly now. In my case, no likely income in the next year, lots of others the same.

Yup Doc charge a fee for every guided animal on Doc estate. I havent got the pricing in front of me but at the end of a good season it adds up. Also depends on what concession I use.
I have been burnt over the years by sharing info and spots more times than I could shake a stick at. I just keep my gob shut now. Still get a ton of enquiries from people wanting a guided hunt and then ask for a map of rough area etc. They're no different to thieves imo. Happily steal what you know and wreck your ability to make a living.
I wont guide Kiwis as a rule but will take people I know I can trust. Some Aussies are bad enough.



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Mate and I pay as at 70 + we turn it into a good road trip with a break from work. We only want a meat animal so in and out is good. One of the guys we use will also gut and carry for us, this protects my heart against foolish decisions!!! We eat and drink well, very enjoyable.
I can also remember the frustrations of my younger day hunting in the Wairarapa, both east and west!!

ive hunted private land teed up by myself or mates on n off forums also done guided hunts
also some doc land trips which i my sitution are more armed quad putters lol cause anywhere u can quad around normally not flash animal wise well for me so far

I did guiding on the farm for 3 years,
We attracted a lot of hunters because we are so cheap, we got just under 900 deer in 3 years, I gave up and just do the old trophy hunt now as my hobbie became a job every weekend my passion for hunting was waining.
Our clients basically came in 3 groups
Those that couldn't hunt at all
Those who wanted there kids to get a deer
Those that just wanted cheap meat

Originally Posted by mikee

if I had 1 dollar for all the promised fishing trips I have had working on peoples boats then I would never need my own boat,

There are only a very select few now on whose equipment I will work outside my "day job" now.

I really hate when people I don't know call my employer to get my number so they can call me outside work hours to ask me to do a "Homie" because they want me to have the cash not the company (really they are looking for a cheap job) . WTF i dont do cheap I only do free (my labour I mean) on my own terms for people I respect! I also stand behind my work 100% unlike some!!

Originally Posted by R93

Yup Doc charge a fee for every guided animal on Doc estate. I havent got the pricing in front of me but at the end of a good season it adds up. Also depends on what concession I use.
I have been burnt over the years by sharing info and spots more times than I could shake a stick at. I just keep my gob shut now. Still get a ton of enquiries from people wanting a guided hunt and then ask for a map of rough area etc. They're no different to thieves imo. Happily steal what you know and wreck your ability to make a living.
I wont guide Kiwis as a rule but will take people I know I can trust. Some Aussies are bad enough.



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Same as I Canada our outfit won't take Canadians. The old outfitter took a guy from Manitoba about 40 years ago. To this day his family who have moved to BC hunt the river near our base camp. This makes our meat hunts difficult as you are competing. Luckily the outfitter knows more secrets of the territory but unlike here they can't move areas. I agree its is illectual property theft. I'm surprised you take Aussies. I genuinely think its would be appropriate for non residents of NZ to require a guide on public land. I here a few stories of Aussies and Australians doing some serious damage to Outfitters areas flying in the following season unchapperoned and validating killing young animals with cost of flights.

In my mid 20's I hired a guide to take me deer hunting. I'd been hunting rabbits and goats for a few years but always wanted to step up to deer. Nobody in my family hunted, I was the exception to the rule. I knew nobody who hunted deer within our extended circle of friends, so after much deliberation I contacted a guide and talked through my objectives. In a nutshell, I wanted to know what to do, where to go and how to do it. The guy wanted $180 per day for free-range hunting on DOC land with no gaurantee of success. To me that was a lot of money and seemed expensive however when I did the sums, I quickly realised that worked out to a shit hourly rate. In the end I paid the man his $360 for the two nights and almost 3 days in the bush. That included food and everything... all I needed was my rifle and a sleeping bag.

While I was confident in my shooting skills if presented with an opportunity to shoot, reading magazines and books was the limit of my knowledge on where to look, what to look for and what to do once an animal was down. As it turns out that $360 was money well spent. What I learned from that guide in two days would have taken me two or three years to work out for myself. I shot myself a good plump red hind and in total saw 9 deer that weekend. I can tell you (without pride) that I never saw that many deer again in the bush for another 15 years. Clearly that guy knew his stuff to put me in front of that many deer in two days in an area that was quite heavily hunted. Clearly I was thick... as I said I never saw that many deer again for many years.

I learned many tricks that I doubt I'd ever had worked out otherwise. I learned how to hunt deer, where to hunt deer, what to do with an animal once it was on the ground and how to carry it out once it was prepared. I was no green-horn at camping or bushwork but I still learned a whole bunch of new skills. Was it all worth the $360? Damn right it was. That $360 set me on a course for the rest of my life and for the hard work that guide had to put into my success that weekend I don't begrudge the guy a cent of it. He earned it.

Since then I've recommended to a number of new comers to consider following my example. Not everyone is lucky enough to have fathers, uncles, cousins or mates to teach them the ropes. Aside from our own stupid pride there is no reason not to give it go because even an experienced hunter is still likely to benefit if for no other reason but to see how somebody else does the same job slightly differently. And hell, you might even enjoy yourself.

Touchy subject this for some people , Here’s my story and take on it , I started deer stalking in the mid eighties and there was a lot less animals around then than there are today , and it was not unusual to do the miles for a whole weekend and not even see one , the spin off to this is you never really got the opportunity to watch animals and learn there habits etc, shit you were more worried about finding camp again most of the time ( no gps’s ).
Never ever thought I would go on a quided hunt because I thought heck I back my self and the hard learnt knowledge, I don’t need someone else to find me animals well 25 years later .....
I have done a few guided hunts here and overseas in the last 10 years now and been a spectator on quite a few hunts with a mate who is a guide .
Some of the hunts overseas you cannot do without a guide anyway and my experience was I met great people and saw game and landscape I always dreamed of seeing (Dall sheep hunt in Alaska) , for me it was a once in a lifetime hunt and would do it again tomorrow if it wasn’t so Dam expensive.
A guided hunt in a fenced safari park here is not for me for sure but they don’t lack customers and for some people they are time poor or bad health and that’s what floats there boat still , I don’t get it but that’s there thing and they are proud of the trophy’s they collect .
A guided free range hunt on either private land or public land is a different kettle of fish , if you are starting out or even if you have been doing it for 30 years you will most probably enjoy some great company , see more animals , learn more about all things hunting and make some friends , what’s not to like about that ?
So for me personally yes my view has changed , has it effected my hunting passion and hunting on my own , No ! I think it’s a good thing to have in the mix , you might shoot a amazing trophy that you can look at everyday on your wall at home ,you might have lesser trophies that you have secured over the years that you appreciate even more but they all tell a story and hold a great memory.
That’s my 2 cents worth anyway.